<p>Swimcatsmom : since you mentioned Chicago I will assume you live in Chicago. My daughter attended New Trier in Winnetka. Her allowance, what we provide for her and our life-style was/is, quite sub-par by local standards. She must be the only kid among her circle of friends without her own car in junior year. We never took the kids to Europe either. My daughter wanted to have what her friends have and I always told her if she wants the nice things her friends have, she can always work hard and get them for herself. </p>
<p>I don’t know if we did right by her.</p>
<p>I know the best way is for the children to find their own way. I also know, from experience, personal connections are so important in landing good first jobs, actually any job. In most places I worked, internships are seldom advertised, one kid will get hired and he/she will bring his/her friends along, or someone already working there will have a kid looking for a summer job. We are new here in this city, so I really don’t think trying to secure an interview for her is unreasonable. Without a personal connection, I would say the chances of getting on a management trainee track is 1/200 in this city. </p>
<p>As for paying for weddings, cars, houses - well, my parents helped their kids, my husband parents did the same, DH said we are not fair/taking advantage of our children if we don’t play it forward. At this point in time, we are not telling them of course. </p>
<p>Despite having very supportive parents, DH was not spoiled. All that parental help only meant that he/we achieved financial security earlier than we otherwise would. It is my hope that my children will be able to do the same. </p>
<p>My next steps are : I will not get any more jobs for her.
I will have more clearly defined expectations for her and her brother about their contributions - how much I would expect from them in summer.
I have to make them work on more chores - AND I need to give my husband a talk about how he should not do all the chores by himself, he’s got to leave some for the children !</p>
<p>Regarding internships - you have a totally different impression of them from me. From what I’ve seen, major companies (including all of the top financial and engineering firms) recruit on-campus and it’s not necessary to pay some agency thousands of dollars or have ‘inside connections’ to secure a position. In addition, a number of firms have programs that allow one to apply as an intern if they don’t recruit at the student’s campus, and they actually do accept people who apply. However, most students would have applied for and secured these positions well before now. Has your D actually applied to any internship positions (herself)?</p>
<p>I’m interested in other posters’ opinions on the subject of internships - student secure the position themeself from campus recruitment or other internship program, or, pay an agency to somehow find an internship for the student?</p>
<p>I worked in the IT field, times were tough 2000 forward. Colleagues that had never had a day out of work since graduation lost their home. Most of our jobs went to India. Some people I know worked at Marshall Fields at $7.50/hr, on 3 hour shifts just to pay the bills. At one company I temped at, one intern had a Masters, was downsized from Sun, one minute he was making six figures and then he was making $15/hour doing tech support, and only because his friend who worked there sent in his resume. In IT, the hiring managers are just too busy and short handed to have any kind of hiring program. Most people I know are doing the job of three people previously. </p>
<p>My husband, an engineer, works with the capital equipment sector, and unless he is willing to relocate to China or India, opportunities are just very limited. Our manufacturing sector is just decimated over the last 10 years.</p>
<p>I don’t know about other fields and that was my own experience. </p>
<p>I am not happy about having to look for jobs for my kids, but if I can, and they can’t, I am not opposed, that’s all I am saying. Also, keep in mind maybe my kids are simply not as good as some of yours. Maybe their grades are not as good, their colleges are not as prestigious or whatever reasons.</p>
<p>Ouch! That must have taken some fortitude not to fall into the North Shore trap of giving your kids everything. Any chance she’s resentful of that, and this is how she’s getting back at you?</p>
<p>munchkin - no we are not from Chicago. We were visiting Chicago one winter and we were freezing so popped into a department store on the magnificent mile looking for gloves and scarves and ran across the $13,000 purse :o . The gloves and scarves were expensive too. So we found a Walgreens. There is one on the mag mile - normal prices too.</p>
<p>I think we all wonder if we did right by our kids sometimes. They don’t come with users manuals and by the time we figure it all out they are grown. And even then we are still trying to figure it out. We can only do the best we can.</p>
<p>teriwtt: I don’t know if she feels resentful - she is really a very loving and sweet natured girl. I knew she feel keenly her budget restrictions and feel quite embarrassed about the stodgy old cars we drive. The saying that you can tell which is the student parking lot and the teacher parking lot, the student parking lot have much nicer cars holds true for New Trier, lol. </p>
<p>Most of the kids and parents are wonderful at New Trier, as are the teachers.</p>
That is true, but applicants can make their own connections. My d. has an internship overseas right now that in theory she should not have - if you look at what is advertised, these internships are only available to college grads. My d. got that internship by emailing and asking. She had a “connection” but not one that I created - it was a relative of a friend. </p>
<p>I realize that your d. might be more shy and less proactive than mine, who was willing to send off an email to a stranger and then follow up after an initial discouraging response. But the way my daughter learned to be proactive and assertive in hunting for work was by applying unsuccessfully for 40+ different jobs the summer after her junior year in high school. She learned a lot that summer about job hunting, including learning where effort was wasted. And she has learned a lot from peers and co-workers, stuff that a parent wouldn’t know and couldn’t teach.</p>
<p>Your d. has plenty of networking opportunities via her school, from other students, and from staff. She just doesn’t know how to use them. The comment you made about “bringing friends along” is very true… my d may very well have gotten her summer job after high school by being the friend who rode the coattails of the first hire. (I’m not sure, I just know that my d.'s friend got hired first, then my d. got hired, then it all dried up and efforts to get my d’s bf hired at the same place were unsuccessful). </p>
<p>Many internships are unpaid, but they can lead to paid work later on – so why don’t you encourage your d. to seek out an unpaid internship? They are easier to come by since the student is offering to work without compensation. Last year my d. had an unpaid internship over the summer but they liked her so much that they gave her a “stipend” retroactively at the end of the summer.</p>
<p>Both of my Ds are CS majors and both have had multiple paid internship offers in the software development field. Many of the large companies you can think of are recruiting on some campuses (the campuses of my Ds included). I’m also in the software development field and it’s not bleak by any means. It’s true that some companies have had some problems and depending on where one is at in the company they may find themselves out of a job but that’s not unusual since the business is always changing. </p>
<p>You stated that at one company a person with a masters and downsized from Sun was ‘interning’ at your company. Maybe we have an issue with semantics but I don’t see how that person would be an intern. They might be a temp or contractor but not an intern. An intern is someone either still in school or sometimes fresh out of school who’s at an entry-level and is generally not a substiture for an employee since the company is investing a certain amount of time and effort in bringing that person up to speed and usually views them as a potential longer term employee. Even companies laying off certain workers are still bringing in interns. Sun, for example, is still hiring depending on skills.</p>
<p>They are called intern positions but you are right, they are just temps. This is a multinational and they are having a SAP upgrade, can’t remember the version now. Nobody was being groomed for anything. There was no positions for them after the cut over. 3 interns were EE grad who can’t find jobs in their field, and the CS MSc grad who worked for Sun. One guy must be in his fifties with 25 plus exp in AS400. I think after the project most of them (the young guys) went off to Accenture or EY to get involved in SOX, one even fibbed his way to senior auditor, lol. How did they manage that ? Friends who recommended them of course. </p>
<p>Things maybe different now but back in 2003 things are pretty tough in Chicago. Maybe Cali is easier. I am thinking of buying a second home in Cali to get away from the cold so maybe my kids can try to find jobs there. </p>
<p>There is one thing I need to clarify, we are living in Toronto right now, and the Canadian job market is different from the US , I think the opportunities are less. My daughter said the internships ask for fourth year or even graduates and I believe her. We are Americans so maybe next summer I will encourage both of them to try to find something in the US. </p>
<p>Calmon: My daughter is indeed shy, and sensitive to boot and a perfectionist who does not handle failure/rejection well. It was a trait that I tried to help her overcome but never succeeded. As her mom I feel her pain but I don’t know what I can do. She is not fitting well in her college, she says it has no school spirit. I suspect, being an average American kid, she couldn’t fit into the uber hard working work ethic of most kids at her college. </p>
<p>I think the idea of unpaid internship is great. I will suggest it to her.</p>
<p>My parents always said that they didn’t care what I did over the summer so long as I didn’t sit around all day and do nothing. I could take classes, or I could get a job, but there was no sleeping-til-noon going on. Even as a kid, my summers were packed with swimming classes, art and drama camps, and stuff at the local recreation center (I have fond memories of pi</p>
<p>Munchkin, I think you are trying all the right things and questioning and analysing all the right things…but I know the solution is not staring any of us in the face. I re-read your post and maybe a heart-to-heart with your D is necessary? It sounds as though she may not be happy…either with her uni or with the major she has selected. Freshman year she found jobs for herself and lived away from home. Something happened to make her want to come back to the safety of home as well as avoid responsibility for doing more? I don’t know of course…just throwing things out there in the hope of coming up with something to help.</p>
<p>Thanks for everyone for the suggestion about volunteering and non-paying positions - I just talked to her and she seem to like the idea. Hopefully that will expand her opportunities somewhat.</p>
<p>aibarr - we had the same attitude as your parents - keep busy, be a productive individual - the emphasis on a paying job only happened when they started college because I want them to have some working experience, in handling people in a professional environment for eg. She does not know what she wants to do with her life, (well, I DO know she wants to live well ) and in our judgment the best way to find some paying job. </p>
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<p>Hi shrinkwrap : I am curious as to what do you mean ? </p>
<p>My kids has established chores, like taking out the garbage, doing the laundry. My husband has a tendency to do it all because he does not have the patience to wait for the kids to do it at their own time. Just last week, he painted the deck all by himself, when both kids promised to help him - he just wanted to do it himself, well he wanted me to help (I just ignored him). I think their dad’s behavior deprive them a chance of learning to do things for themselves. </p>
<p>natmicsef : I was very surprised when she requested to come back and live at home. After living in the dorm I thought she would continue to live either in the dorm or sharing a place with other students. The reasons she gave was that she missed us and she wants to save money. I cannot say I am not secretly pleased that she missed us, when I was her age I couldn’t get away from my parents soon enough !</p>
<p>Shrinkwrap means that if you have a husband who takes out the garbage, does the laundry, paints your deck, etc. … you ought to keep him just the way he is. Get creative and find something else for your kids to do… but you are married to Mr. Perfect. (I may have kids with a strong work ethic… but you if you are anyway unhappy with your husband, I’d be glad to trade him for my ex…) ;)</p>
<p>Well, I wasn’t doing any marital counseling, I was only saying my husband does NOT do my kids chores…Nobody does!</p>
<p>joking…some…</p>
<p>But seriously folks, I have been of the “keep busy” persuasion, and often that meant someone else did the chores too…, as long as they were doing something productive. My D will go and go and go and go with her extracurriculars, then she comes home and naps…</p>
<p>I think that ultimately, with parenting, we force an issue when we can’t stand it any longer. Remember potty training? Eventually, even those kids who were “resistant” got potty trained because we were tired of dirty diapers. </p>
<p>That point comes at different times for different people. The summer-on-the-couch thing is a minor irritation for some, a major “dental drill” nerve jangler after a few days for others. In a pick-your-battles world, every parent has different things that push their buttons. The flip side of this is that all of our kids REALLY KNOW when we mean it. Go to a playground and watch. The 3 year olds have learned the tone that REALLY means “come here NOW.” For some parents it’s the 1st “come here,” for others it’s the 10th, and for some, they never REALLY mean it, and the kid knows that, too.</p>
<p>Munchkin, right now, can stand having daughter not work. Daughter knows that. When Munchkin REALLY gets to the point where D’s not working makes her ready to take action, D will figure that out, too.</p>
<p>This is not a criticism. I’ll bet Munchkin daughter’s bedroom looks WAY WAY WAY better than my son’s. In fact I’ll take that bet with anyone here. Sigh. That’s not one of my battles, and he knows it. Everybody’s different.</p>
<p>D went for an interview today. She couldn’t have the job because it requires a 5 day, 8-5 schedule and she has her class during 2 of those days. </p>
<p>She got this interview on her own. She also seem to be more engaged with her studies - woke up early to study instead of her usual 12pm.</p>
<p>She said she applied for more jobs today and promise to start looking at retail or other shift work by the end of this week if nothing pens out.</p>
<p>mom2three: lol, d’s room not only probably look better than your son’s, it also look better than mine ! She is a neat, organized girl.</p>