Advice for Engineer at Caltech, Harvey Mudd and Stanford

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I applied to Caltech, Harvey Mudd and Stanford for mechanical engineering. I haven’t heard from the schools yet, but I am a strong candidate so I would like to research them more. I still have some unanswered questions about them. Any insight would be appreciated, whether they answer my questions or just have an opinion to offer on the engineering education of the schools.

I want to pursue industry after graduation, but I have heard that these schools dont teach the skills that employers are expecting and the education has a more theoretical approach. Is this actually a problem, or just something minor?

The private school education is very intense. While I am a STEM nerd, I am concerned that the overwhelming workload could make the experience bad. Have others found this to be the case?

Harvey Mudd, Stanford and Caltech have about a 90k a year price tag. With the fafsa delays, I am not sure how much it would cost my family. How much debt is the status of a these school’s education worth?

Thanks.

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Frankly, I think you are right to be cautious about paying full market rate private for a degree in Mechanical Engineering with a goal of working in industry.

Public universities are by far where most such people are going to get their college degrees. Harvey Mudd and Caltech are tiny niche schools. Stanford of course is bigger, but in the latest NCES College Navigator, it only had 48 graduating primary majors in MechE. Even being a STEM college, Caltech had 28 (again, tiny school). Harvey Mudd had 51 in Engineering generally (they only have a general major).

In contrast, Purdue, for example, had 430 MechE graduates. Georgia Tech had 421. TAMU had 415. And on and on. Again, public colleges strong in engineering is where the vast majority of actual working engineers will get their degrees.

OK, so you can’t possibly NEED a degree from a niche private college program to have a successful career in MechE. Of course if it would be comfortably affordable for you and your family, and you think you would enjoy the experience, then great. But if the cost would be a lot more, it is very likely going to be impossible to justify that cost in terms of return on investment versus going to any of a pretty long list of very good publics for MechE.

Indeed, I don’t know where you are in-state, but at least a lot of states make a point of having at least one really good MechE program available. Absent great aid packages, that is a good bet to be your strongest ROI option for MechE, assuming you have the credentials to get admitted. Which doesn’t mean families never choose to pay more, but again that is rarely a necessary choice, it is usually some form of luxury choice.

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I agree 100%. If cost was not a concern, it would be a different conversation. But it’s not worth taking on significant debt, especially for an industry that is not brand conscious.

@Sylvester3, do you have any hooks? And do you have any acceptances in hand already?

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All three of these schools are CSS Profile schools, which means that applicants who want financial aid have to file an additional, much more in-depth form, called the CSS Profile. Has your family filled out the CSS Profile for these schools?

And in terms of cost, has your family run the Net Price Calculator for these schools to get an estimate of what the need-based aid is likely to be? If not, that’s something you should do ASAP. Please use the NPC that each school provides on their webpage. Do not use the “shortcut” one provided by MyIntuition, even if the college’s webpage provides a link to it.

Please note that if your parents are divorced, or if they own a business, or if you are an international student that these calculators will not be accurate.

Also, do you have any other schools you have applied for? CalTech and Stanford accept very, very few students and Harvey Mudd’s acceptance rate is 18%. Even strong candidates need to have a school that is very likely to accept them as well as be affordable for their families. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem likely that any of these three falls into this category.

Hoping for the best for you!

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Hoping you also did the CSS Profile…because for these colleges, that is what determines institutional need based aid.

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I think this is true of many and most schools and in most majors - and then you have others that are heavier project based. I know @momofboiler1 has spoken about Purdue in this regard as has @eyemgh discussed CPSLO and others U of Louisville. I think WPI is also project based.

All that said, I think you learn on the job - and having a Cal Tech, Stanford, and Harvey Mudd degree (especially the first two) - are a few of the schools that put you on a different level. It doesn’t mean in the long run that you’ll be further ahead, etc. but you’ll be seen at a higher level than say, a kid like mine, who went to Alabama (fine education but I don’t think his curriculum was directly relevant to employer’s needs). Students often learn to do the roles the employers have (on the job training if you will) and most engineers don’t even end up in engineering roles - at least according to one study, up to 75%. But I do think kids learn to think like engineers and to develop a problem solving approach, etc.

My former sales VP at a major automotive majored in aerospace engineering - and there are engineers filling both line level and leadership roles all through varied industries. Really, it’s a wonderful major to get you most anywhere - and those schools do command a certain level of respect at their mention.

100% absolutely affordability is the goal and to go so far in debt is crazy for any school - but I don’t think attending these schools will put you behind for industry access, should that be what you seek.

You can also ask each for their career outcomes - yes, many will head into further schooling but they’ll still have plenty in industry. After all, people have bills to pay!!!

You should ask each school for in depth info, not like Cal Tech lists - this would be jobs taken, location, average or median salary per the major. Mudd should do better as well in their career outcomes but gives better info than Cal Tech (linked below). Stanford - same thing - incomplete data and I’d ask for better.

That said, if you get into (and can afford any of these three) - well - you’ve done well and I’m sure will continue to do well.

Best of luck.

"As a graduate of Caltech, you’ll join an active alumni community of more than 24,000 around the world. Some of our newest alumni are headed to Meta, SpaceX, a wide variety of prestigious research labs and grad schools, and one will even work as an EMT before medical school. You’ll have the opportunity to connect with the Caltech Alumni Association for networking opportunities, career guidance, and social activities. "

Class of 2023 Senior Outcomes (hmc.edu)

Career Options | Mechanical Engineering (stanford.edu)

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It’s actually more selective than that, especially for males. Most recently per the school CDS the overall acceptance rate was 13% but for males it was about 8.5%.

In some ways not all that different, practically speaking. But maybe worth noting.

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I am in state for california. I have already been accepted to some of the CSUs. My top choice public school is Cal Poly Slo, still waiting for results. I feel pretty comfortable with going to UC or cal poly, but its the private schools that I am on the fence about. I have filled out the CSS, but these schools have announced on their websites that the fafsa will delay their release of cost of attendance.

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Right. But have you run the net price calculators at these schools to get cost estimates?

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We did a couple months ago, the cost ended up being around 60k a year. Thats a little out of our comfort zone and would require some debt.

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Congrats on your acceptances and good luck with SLO and the others schools you are still waiting to hear from.

Did you also apply to the other two CalPolys – Pomona and Humboldt? If not, and you want to, Humboldt is still taking applications for mechanical engineering. It’s the newest Cal Poly – they just got so designated two years ago – and it might be worth adding them to your list since it sounds as if you are interested in “hands on” and that’s what the Cal Polys are known for.

If you go down the list for Humboldt, ME is listed under the “M’s”, not the “E’s”)

Application Dates & Deadlines | CSU (calstate.edu)

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I have been accepted to Cal Poly Pomona. I am not interested in Cal Poly Humboldt, I have applied to too many schools already

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Glad you are in at Pomona as it will also provide the hands-on experience you may want!

Fingers crossed for you for your other applications!

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When my s visited Harvey Mudd, we were told that there were partnerships with industry in place where they worked on projects together both during the academic year and in the summer.

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How much debt? The student can only borrow $5.5k first year without a cosigner.

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So as I am sure you know, the Cal Poly schools are known for being excellent educators of engineers at the undergrad level. Not that this should be taken as completely determinative, but on this survey-based list of the best engineering colleges without doctorate programs, Harvey Mudd was tied for #2 (fair enough), but SLO was tied for #5 with the Naval Academy, Pomona was tied for #9 with Cooper Union:

Then in MechE specifically, SLO is up to #2 (only after Rose Hulman) and Pomona is tied for #3 with Bucknell, actually ahead of Harvey Mudd at #5.

This is really top company to be keeping, so I continue to believe you are right to wonder if paying a lot more for Harvey Mudd, Caltech, or Stanford would really be worth it–if you stay with Mechanical Engineering.

The one cautionary note I would have is a lot of people drop out of Engineering majors. I wouldn’t necessarily use this reasoning to favor Harvey Mudd or Caltech, but one nice thing about colleges like Stanford, or Cal, UCLA, and so on, is that if you decide to go in a different direction, they will still be very good for that too. And there is also often what I would call a higher margin for error, in that say if your grades are not so good in Engineering but then you switch to something else and do really well from that point forward, the GPA you end up with might be more competitive for various next steps coming out of those colleges.

So that is just something else to consider, if it actually comes down to those particular options. I think it gets very personal when it comes to balancing these things against cost differences, but I do think one of the things families with the means to pay for more expensive privates are doing is trying to give their kids a broader range of good options and a higher margin for error.

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Yet it was your kid who was invited back for a second internship and not the Georgia Tech student. :blush:

OP, my son had the stats to be competitive anywhere. He wanted a “typical college experience” so he intentionally avoided schools like MIT, HMC and Caltech. He ended up at Cal Poly (BS/MS ME ‘19). He’s been fortunate to have worked on two elite teams since graduating, one a startup and one a FAANG that recruited him. Feel free to contact me if you want to hear about is experience.

What I will say about Cal Poly is that they are very much into theory, but they provide MANY opportunities to “doing.” He had multiple class lab projects that were as rigorous as senior projects at other schools. His senior project was so involved that the participants on industry day couldn’t believe that three guys did the whole thing in a year. His MS thesis project is used by the Air Force and Boeing. You’ll have ample opportunity to apply your theory at Cal Poly.

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Any ABET-accredited engineering major will include both engineering science (theory) and engineering design (application), though specific programs can go beyond the minimum that satisfies accreditors.

Caltech and Stanford have ABET accreditation in mechanical engineering (although they dropped it for some other kinds of engineering where PE licensing is less common), while Harvey Mudd has ABET accreditation in its general engineering major.

Caltech and Harvey Mudd are outliers compared to most colleges (public or private) in terms of intensity and rigor of the required core / general education requirements, including proof-based calculus that is closer to real analysis. Caltech in particular has a “drinking from a fire hose” reputation. Most private schools are much less intense.

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The funny thing about those rankings, and a serious nit pick I have with USNWR is that Cal Poly outranks HMC in every category where they both have majors ranked, yet is behind on composite. Worse yet, HMC doesn’t offer most of the majors they rank. It’s odd.

That said, they do a great job at educating engineers. It’s not for everyone though. It’s very small.

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Yeah, since they are survey based, they can ask questions that may or may not actually make sense as applied to specific schools.

Generally, I don’t think reputational surveys should be taken as precise and definitive rankings. I do think they can be used, though, for the limited purpose of identifying schools that are AMONG the schools with a better reputation for undergraduate education, which you can do without taking the exact rankings too seriously.

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