http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg05_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1580
Washington and Lee University
81% of women participate in sororities
77% of men participate in fraternities
Your post could have been my very own 2 years ago. I have waited 18 months to even say one thing about this to anyone but those closest to me and have been met with social backlash for my feelings against fraternities and those that condone the behaviors. I encouraged the entire thing and now that is my biggest regret. Even speaking out here has been met with narrow minded people in complete denial of such a system that can harm so much. If you are one of the lucky ones you will be fine. In our case⊠Rush was only for 3 hours on the last day. He was asked back to the frat he thought he was going to pledge plus 2 more. He was thrilled. You spend 1 hour at each. The first place he went was to that one. They escorted him out of the basement into a side yard at 1:20 after schmoozing him to everyone for 1.2 hours. He was so upset and shocked he couldnât go to the second one with only 40 minutes left, which turned out a blessing because they have now lost their chapter on our campus so I feel he skirted a bad thing there anyway. The third one, he didnât know one person at and had never been there before. I caution you to make any assumptions about the outcome. I do not like fraternities and sororities and they have no place on college campuses.
Every year there are girls in tears? Every year there are boys devastated? And this is okay because why? My son had panic attacks. Brand new to him or to me. I worried about him constantly. They hurt him terribly bad. His roommate got in, he lived with the letters, the cups, the t-shirts, the letters on his door. He went to zero parties and still has never been to one. One of my friends got a text âdo you think Mrs. blank is mad at us for what we did to blank?â They know what they did and they got away with it. I hope some day that comes back to them. These are not rule followers. There was a guy in the basement and the guy told my son to his face we do not have a bid for you and escorted him out a door he did not come in. His friends saw him go to the basement. He went with a smile having no idea what was about to happen. He is a sweet, normal, wonderful kid who was hurt right along with 3 other parents who had to move their sons out of their dorm situation. One kid went on the roof and the paramedics took him down. These are the unspoken losers that are supposed to keep their months shut for fear of looking weak and being made to feel like even bigger losers than they already feel. Sour grapes is a useful thing if you want to defend these organizations. The only reason no one hears about the âgirls that cryâ is because it is a sign of weakness and met with such disgust by those that feel these kids should be able to handle this rejection at 18 and 19 years of age, the first week they leave home, and then be made to live among it. Believe me, I tried to get him out of there. He wouldnât budge. He is at the best college in our state for his degree. I admire him so much for staying. It was hard and continues to be hard at times, but this has changed our family.
I just wanted to reiterate that itâs more than the percentage of students who participate in greek life. Itâs the way the greek systemâs institutions and the students who participate in it interact with other students and with the university as a whole. And, in general, with the culture on campus.
For example, based on percentage of student involvement, Alabama was named the #23 âfrattiestâ school in America with a student participation rate of 26%. My daughterâs decidedly âunfrattyâ school has an almost identical greek participation rate of 24%. (BTW, according to that list, MIT was #3 with 39% participation rate among male students.)
DePauw is about 70% Greek. I donât think Greeks have to be in the majority to be an important part of campus social life, though.
Mom mission post 253 - that sounds horrible, that the sororities/fraternities have âassigned seatsâ in other clubs that are therefore closed to other kids.
Surely you donât think thatâs a universal feature, though? You spoke as if it was. Iâm from one of the oldest, most established systems in the country (most sororities founded prior to 1900, primarily single letter chapters) and I have absolutely never heard of such a thing, and would not condone it at all. So lay that at the feet of an administration which permits such nonsense.
Wow, you must have kids in fraternities or sororities or maybe you were one yourself. I donât think any one of your 150 coworkers will care if you do not ask them to lunch. Now, if you get 60 or 70 of them to take out and live with in a commune and I have to go live in the hut alone next door because you refuse entrance to only me but accept all my friends then I guess I will be glad I am 50 and can handle that situation and glad also that it is NOT my 18 year old child that you have done that to. You missed the point the poster was making completely about groups denying entrance in their group.
Donât worry, I have a thick skin. My son raised 90K for charities his senior year of college. He was more than ready to contribute and had been wooed by this frat the entire summer. They even gave us both a tour. They decided to cut him and go with his roommate last minute who actually had already bid another frat that ended up letting him out of it the next day. This story is fret with details too numerous to explain and besides it is what it is. It happened and it is a part of our experience and certainly no one elseâs. The stories I hear are all different though mostly all sad for the kids that donât âget inâ. One girl in particular who was as devastated as my son if not more. I do not think organizations like this should exist on college campuses. Fraternities and sororities allow and condone kids hurting other kids.
âHut alone next doorâ is where you go off the rails. There are other kids. If 30% are Greek 70% are not. So âaloneâ is being a drama queen.
He would never join the greek life at this point. As he said right after this happened, âI could never have been the guy in the basement escorting guys out in this public wayâ. He knows now his friends knew what was going down when they asked him to go to the basement. The opening to the basement is in the middle of the big great room where that all were meeting with each other. They kept him in the big room for 1.2 hours before taking him down. He went down smiling having no idea what was happening yet. When they put him out in the side yard there were 2 other boys and one was crying. My son dint cry in front of anyone. He would never do that. Like I said I have waited over a year to even tell our story because of the backlash of those that donât believe these things happen to normal kids. People want to blame my son for not being able to take it even now. These organizations are brutal and have no place on college campuses.
what is a PNM?
@mommission, this really does sound like a brutal and unnecessary experience for your son. I am glad he has bounced back from it.
I do think that fraternities and sororities can do great things, but probably can also abuse whatever power they are granted by campus administration. Iâm not convinced we need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Perhaps some campuses require better oversight of their greek organizations; some sweeping reforms may be needed in some cases.
Certainly behavior such as the type exhibited toward your son should be abolished. This strikes me as a complicated issue that could benefit from some better regulation by campus authorities.
PNM stands for âpotential new memberâ.
My son did not have self-esteem issues then, does not have self-esteem issues now, and to assume that is wrong. However, I am getting used to the need of some posters to villanize him or make it his âfaultâ that this happened to him It is the reason these kids do not speak out. How unpopular of him to have not taken this rejection like a man, suck it up and live among his rejection like a trooper. All so that the greek system can exist for this who need it so much to survive college. In no other place on our planet do more memberâs lobby for something so bad for so many, and we havenât been talking the physical harm and even deaths it causes. There is no need for these organizations on college campuses, that cause harm to so many.
@ellemom - I suggest you get an apartment with Heather, (just the two of you and hopefully the others in the apartment will mostly all be in the book club) and try to find something else to do on the nights when the âsistersâ of the book club are coming to your room to pick Heather up for the formal or the date night or maybe when they are all wearing their book club t-shirts and leaving for the football game on Saturday afternoon because they get to sit together and you have to go into the general seating. Sit alone, eat alone, and maybe even start going back home to your parents house on the weekends and hang out with your old group of friends from high school. All this while you are not the grown adult you are today dropping hints about your jealousy over a book club, but while you turn back the clock and are 19 years old. Your callous attitude toward how hard this is on kids that donât âget inâ is hard for me to stomach. I will not post again in response to you. You have been posting since the beginning and dominating the thread with support for these organizations. That is certainly your right. I guess I will add my support for book clubs here and their ability to ask whomever they want to join. I would think they like open discussion and broad points of view. Perhaps you are too restrictive in your opinions of others. You have zero ability to see this from any point of view other than that of your own experience. I get that, but to compare the devastation my son went through for a year of his life, to not getting in to a book club is just too much.
@pizzagirl No one is saying those of you that âget inâ donât like it. We are saying the group of kids that donât âget inâ get hurt. Plain and simple. Where else in the world is it okay to âexpectâ a certain number of girls to cry each year and then get over it. What makes it okay to hurt students at a college on their first day of school?
@pizzagirl I am so happy for you that you were so popular and accepted into such a great group of 100+ girls. My son had a ton of best friends until the greek system stole them. His dorm roommate and both suite mates âgot inâ to the fraternities they had been rushing. We heard it was because they had too many from his particular high school and many of the guys that were in the fraternity were upset and sad at what had happened to him but they do not ask guys to hang out at fraternities. Once you are out, you are out! They robbed him of his social life, took most of his friends, although they still work with him and even them I can see the pain they have for him and sorrow in their eyes, but they have no choice socially and left him hanging. His only 2 friends who didnât get in and he moved to an apartment just off campus and he has lived a different kind of college life than he expected. it took him a while, counseling and lots of encouragement but he is doing fine now. I waited so long to even start the conversation because of others refusal to see anything past their own experience with this. No one wants to look at the ugly truth about these organizations. If I can save one child from going through what he went through then my time and energy will have paid off. These organizations are cruel to certain segment of the population and have no place on college campuses.
One needs to deal in reality, carolinamom. And if one contends that if you are not âchosenâ to be in a house (or choose not to rush), you canât have friendships with anyone in that house, one is not dealing in reality. Likewise, if one contends that being Greek means you cannot initiate, maintain or build friendships outside oneâs house, one is not dealing in reality.
Wow, you could not be more wrong about this. Of course you can have other friendships outside the greek house. You are free to be friends with whomever you want. What you are wrong about is assuming when you do not âget inâ that you are still welcome to come and go as you please in the Greek House. How can you even say that? You know that is not truth if you were âinâ the house. The only people who are getting âinâ that house are those who are âinvitedâ in by the membership and guys donât allow guys that didnât get âinâ to come in the house. At least, in the case of the fraternities I know about that is the truth. There are about 3 sophomores year who are given a bid each year and most of those are transfer students, not guys previously denied membership. Even if all your friends get in, they are pledges and not allowed to sponsor you nor bring you to any parties.
Mommission â I wasnât popular in high school. I was a nerd / âbrainiacâ type, cared about my books / studies, did not go to parties, proms, and so forth, and could not wait to get to college to be with more serious-minded students. My Greek experience expanded my horizons - I was able to make more social connections than I ever would have on my own if left to my own devices.
Iâm very sorry that your son had the experience he did. I truly am. Shame on people who arenât nice to others.
Systems are SO DIFFERENT campus to campus and house to house. There are Greek systems where Iâd encourage kids to give it a try - no harm no foul - and there are Greek systems where Iâd say - donât touch it with a ten-foot pole, itâs just not set up very nicely. I think itâs really important not to tar all with the same brush, thatâs all.
Missionmom, you and your son are assuming other houses are like the one he wanted, and would escort him out the basement door. All arenât the same. I was in an unpopular house (at the time, it is now considered âthe bestâ on campus) We never escorted anyone out. We gave bids to everyone unless they didnât meet the requirements (gpa, status with the school). I canât remember ever not giving a bid in the 4-5 rush/bid processes when we were down to the final party. Many more people ârejectedâ us than us them (although we didnât consider it rejection, just them finding another house they preferred).
So not all houses are like the ONE house he didnât get a bid from. Were there other chapters on our campus that didnât give bids to everyone? OF COURSE! Every house canât accept every Rushee, just like every club doesnât accept everyone, every band canât have 75 flutes, every college canât accept every single applicant.
Also, we did not have âauto admitsâ to all the other clubs and organizations on campus. Far from it.