advice needed; should I delay my grad school application?

MasterMoe · May 6, 2009, 2:16am

Hey ppl.

Anyways, I’m Canadian student who just finished his 3rd yr of undergrad at the University of Toronto. I am studying Molecular Genetics and Microbiology.

Anyways, 3rd yr has been very rough for me and anyone can see from my grades.

Coming out of 1st yr my cGPA was a solid 3.5x. After 1st yr you are supposed to choose a major (well my prog is a specialist–more involved than a major).

I decided to enroll in the MolGen and Micro program against warnings that the program is extremely difficult and felt that my interest in the material would make up for the difficulty of the courses. I went to second year and did fairly well in the main molecular biology course and also did well in my genetics class but I BOMBED Biochemistry and Organic Chem. I was actually doing well in Biochem up until they required us to memorize absurdly detailed biochemical pathways and my mark dropped significantly. I also bombed chemistry because I was doing a summer studentship in the lab and was in the lab 50-60hrs a week and was dealing with some personal issues. I also don’t do well with memorizing chemical structures so that course was a monumental disaster. So my GPA dropped quite a bit. But I stayed in the program because I would no longer need to take any biochem or chem courses. However, I did do well in my physical chemistry course.

I chose to stay in the program because I did do well in my molecular bio and genetics courses. So when it came time to choose between 3 streams of the program—genetics or microbio, I chose microbio. This turned out to be another disaster.

I was just blasted with brutal courses that forced me to memorize absurd details. I chose to avoid the genetics stream because it required students take two lab courses that forced students to take more than a full course load if they wanted to avoid summer courses and graduate in 4yrs. So midway through my 3rd yr it was clear the microbio stream was a mistake and so was the program. However, switching into genetics would require I stay for a 5th yr for my undergrad. This sure as hell aint happening. I just find molecular genetics so much more intuitive and elegant than microbio. Even when taking immunology, bacteriology, or dreaded virology courses I noticed I did better when it focused on genetics.

So now I just finished my 3rd yr and my grades have slipped even further.

I’m thinking of leaving the program and transferring to a similar program and I should be able to graduate next year.

The problem is this program like a few other programs tends to take in students who are well above average (I’d guess the average 1st yr GPA ~3.5-3.6) and they often pool them into classes together where the class average is usually a B-/C+. You obviously can see the prob in that.

The only thing I can say is that my course load clearly indicates that I was HEAVILY focused on molecular biology courses.

My stats now look like this:

~ international

avg cGPA ~3.3 Major cGPA ~3.3

Research experience: I did a summer research project in my 2nd yr in a molecular genomics lab. I have been working as a research assistant in a virology lab all of my 3rd yr. I will continue in this laboratory as a summer student this year. In my 4th yr, I will do a 4th yr thesis research project in a genetics laboratory. So by graduation, I will have a bit over 2yrs of research experience.

No publications–not expecting any either

LORs: I will be getting 3 LORS from 3 different PIs. I expect Probably 2 solid LORs and 1 mediocre one.

I haven’t done the GRE or subject GRE (I plan on writing the biology GRE)

I have taken a look at the biology GRE’s molecular bio and genetics section and the questions are really easy-- I can usually go 20 questions without an incorrect answer. I will need practice with the other sections but I expect to do very well.

Ya I know–not the most impressive stats. Maybe acing the subject GRE and a publication will help.

These are the schools im considering:

-Rockefeller
-Columbia
-UPenn
-Yale
-MIT
-Princeton
-Chicago
-Johns Hopkins
-Scripps

Needless to say, I expect a rejection from most of these schools if not all of them.

I honestly think the application process is a waste if I expect to be rejected from most of these schools.

However, I’ve lived in Toronto for most of my life and I want out ASAP and I know for certain genetics grad school in the states is my goal.

I think I’m capable of living on my own although I have been living with my parents as a commuter student. I’m fairly independant.

Here are my two options:

1: Don’t apply next year. Finish my undergrad and work as a lab tech for a year and then apply. Hopefully get a publication in at that point. In the meantime, maybe get my GPA up to 3.4 or 3.5 by acing 4th yr.
This adds a marginal improvement in grades and 1 more yr of research experience

<li>Take my chances and apply next year. I’m really ready for grad school and only want to delay things if it is totally necessary.</li>
</ol>

What do you think?

And can you recommend other solid genetics schools I may be overlooking.

—BTW, sorry for the realllllly long post.

studdent · May 6, 2009, 4:57am

High GPA can definitely help getting into those schools, however, as you probably know, there are other important components as well (LOR, EXP, etc). Unfortunately, most applicants probably memorize in a hardcore fashion to survive their undergraduate courses in order to maintain a high GPA (whether they like it or not). Graduate school is not all about memorizing, but there will be courses that will require you to memorize…

Nevertheless, I think ~3.3 should be just about minimum to be considered. With exceptional letter of recommendations (from well known / connected faculty) and excellent GRE scores (may need to memorize ‘GRE’ words), you may have a reasonable chance to some of those schools.

From my personal experience, I would recommend you to apply once you have published. It will give you time to rethink your plan, plus it will increase your chance at those top schools. But since you want to get out so bad, maybe you should consider other schools in the US… I’m not familiar with the genetics field, but I’m sure other CCers will help you out.

My only advice for now: Check out each program in the top 50 (biological science ranking, usnews). After all, your career would mainly depend on your match with a specific lab & PI, instead of the school / program as a whole. Start looking for labs… you might find a fabulous lab/PI/project in a less selective program. Who knows?

GL

juillet · May 6, 2009, 5:52am

Your cumulative GPA isn’t even that low. I had a 3.4 when I graduated from undergrad, no publications, 2.5 years of research experience (but all during undergrad) and solid LORs. I aced the GRE (really aced) and I was told by my advisor that balanced my mediocre GPA. And my SOP was solid. I’m at Columbia in a Ph.D program at the SPH.

Apply for a range of graduate schools next year and see what happens. If you don’t get in, then finish undergrad, work as a lab tech and reapply. All you can do is try.

dfh932 · May 6, 2009, 9:09am

Agreed.
Don’t wait another minute to apply. If you’ve got the resources and energy and time, get cracking on those applications and start making emails to professors you would like to work with.

The only thing you risk by applying now is a blow to your ego if you don’t get into all schools you want to, which probably won’t happen–but even if you decide not to go straightaway, at least you will have went through the admissions process and learned more about what you want to do to beef up your stats.

Also, blowing the doors off the GRE will be a big plus for you, and will smooth over some of those other things in your academic history.

It sounds like you would be a solid candidate, esp. if you can bring your GPA up just a tiny bit during your last year of school.

dfh932 · May 6, 2009, 9:13am

Ah my last part of the message got cut off.

I was only going to suggest that you don’t mention the sordid academic history during your admissions process, or come up with positive reasons for blemishes on your record.

I can completely understand hard classes, memorization, boring stuff, etc.–but admissions committees and professors you might interview with won’t want to hear it.

Just say something positive, like you might have been naive going into some of the more difficult classes and were a little swamped, but you’ve been trying hard to raise your grades since then.
And about the switching of tracks and such–just say something like you needed to explore several areas of your field before you discovered your calling in genetics.

MasterMoe · May 6, 2009, 3:41pm

Yep I just got my final grade for my 3rd yr specialist molecular genetics course back and it was solid. I think this solidifies my original concerns that genetics is where I should be and not microbiology–although a total separation of both fields is not possible.

So I’ll just study my ass off for the GREs and subject GREs and hopefully ace both of them.

I’ll talk to my undergraduate coordinator about my concerns regarding this program and see if I can have them reconsider the micro courses I need to take to graduate and replace them with genetics courses. If so, that’s fine. If not, I’m switching out of the program to another genetics program offered at this school.

I’ll just stick around at my lab day in and day out to really milk an epic LOR from my current viro PI and then do the same next year with a genetics PI.

If that all works out, I should be solid for grad school. A publication would also just be icing on the cake.

Sound like a plan?

advice needed; should I delay my grad school application?

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