<p>I bookmark this thread. Just in case. :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not quite.
MIT requires a math and a science SAT II. This means either Math I or Math II and either of the Bio tests in addition to the Chem and Physics ones you mentioned.</p>
<p>I’m not Asian, so I can’t speak as well to some of the stuff the OP brought up.</p>
<p>But here’s the politically incorrect thing I’d like to bring up, as long as we’re airing it out. </p>
<p>Look, the reason Colleges look at your grades and scores is because they want to see if you’re going to make it at their school. I read these posts all the time like “I studied so hard for the SAT and I studied endlessly for my grades and now I hope they’re high enough!” And the student will have something like a 3.8 and a 2180.</p>
<p>The idea of the top Ivies is to be a place where the people who bring the most to the table can learn. It seems to me like too often people are saying “how can I game the system and get in even though I don’t have what they’re looking for?” Rather than “I know I’m capable and have the necessary pieces to get into a school, now how do I present them?”</p>
<p>Before people get obsessed with getting in, I think they need to take a step back and ask themselves 1) What they’re bringing to the school and 2) If they’re going to be in over their heads academically.</p>
<p>If youre answer is “I bring nothing to the school, I’m just an average kid who plays tennis, gets decent scores, and is in NHS,” theres nothing wrong with that. It means nothing about you as a person. But to be honest, if you’re not bringing anything to the school, why do you want to go there? And more importantly, why do they want you there? What advantages are you going to get at Stanford over say, Northwestern, if you’re just an average smart kid?</p>
<p>I say the tough pill for people to swallow is simply that you can do all you want to game the system, but if you’re truly excellent (and want to go) you can get into HYP or S. If you’re not, your chances are slim–but why should they be any higher? And why wouldn’t you just go to another decent school that is going to give you a similar experience?</p>
<p>Thats the fascinating part on these threads to me.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s true that some who aspire for HYPS just aren’t cut out for it, but, at the same time, consider all the clearly qualified applicants who don’t get in. Colleges always talk about how they rejected this number of 2400’s or this number of valedictorians or this USAMO’er or that USABO’er. These applicants truly are extraordinary, but, probably due to poorly presenting themselves in their application, fail to get in. Moreover, especially at HYPS, MOST people aren’t the typical tennis-playing NHS member – most people truly do have something they could bring to the institution, but it’s all about how they present themselves. This is true no matter the situation, a job application, an internship interview, etc.</p>
<p>** More on essays **</p>
<p>Some have asked me to elaborate more on the essay section. While I surely am not the authoritative voice on essays, I can offer a few, more specific pointers that I’ve gleaned through various sources and through experience. </p>
<p>Treat this as an addendum to the main post.</p>
<p>SUBJECT, STYLE, LENGTH
I’ve already touched on certain subjects to avoid and have given a few essay topics I found interesting/unique. Now, for the sake of brevity, I won’t go into all the possibilities, but I will recommend that you go to the nearest Barnes&Nobles and look at the successful college admissions essays. The subjects are generally pretty unique and the writers are able to express themselves well. Generally speaking, avoid talking about abstract concepts like how you believe that morality is an inherent manifestation of metaphysical foundations. Yes, you sound intellectual, but the adcoms don’t get a sense for who you are when you focus on abstract concepts. Keep it simple and keep it focused on you.</p>
<p>As with any paper, good writing tips apply here. Use active voice when possible. Be concise, yet illustrative. Don’t beat a dead horse. Avoid cliches (oh, the irony, right?). It’s important to NOT come off as pretentious and pompous. Yes, you should vary your syntax for interest, but no, you shouldn’t make it overly complex to demonstrate your masterful writing techniques. The same applies for vocabulary. Use powerful words that can invoke feelings and images, but do NOT write with the thesaurus next to you – you’ll lose your voice and come off as trying way too hard to show off your erudition. Keep it colloquial, adcoms want to hear your voice. In fact, I’d actually recommend using contractions like “it’s” and “they’re” instead of spelling out “it is” and “they are” simply because it’s how most teenagers talk and it gives a much more informal and loose feel to your essay. Now, I’ve seen some very flowery and very poetic essays with very unique prose. Some have been successful, some have not. I’d personally advise people to avoid essays like this (best not risk coming off as overbearing and unrealistic). The adcoms don’t have time to sit around and analyze just what you meant when you made that ambiguous statement about how your life resembles a dying flower. Keep the language simple and direct. While the style is important, a clear and powerful message is MUCH more important. </p>
<p>Many CC’ers will tell you that 500 words is the absolute maximum for Common App essays. That’s not true. Most of the great essays I’ve read were 600-700 words long. My own essay was around 750 words. That said, for anything past 800 words, I’d be wary of rambling and look for ways to reword things or take things out. Not saying that an excellent essay can’t be longer, just, as a general rule of thumb, try not to write more than 800 words.</p>
<p>ADDITIONAL ESSAYS
There seems to be a bit of debate over just how important these are, but, I’ll say this definitively, if schools allow you to submit an additional essay, DO IT. Why would you NOT take the opportunity to show adcoms another side of you and give them more reasons to want to accept you? The only exception is if you’ve nothing substantial to add (in which case, you probably shouldn’t be applying to elite colleges in the first place). If a college doesn’t explicitly allow you the option of an additional essay, don’t send one. </p>
<p>WHY X ESSAYS
I’ve already said be as specific as possible. It’s much more convincing that way. What’s more, you receive the benefit of having researched your schools and, in the event that you’re accepted to more than one, you’ll already have some groundwork upon which you can base your difficult decision. </p>
<p>A good way to structure these essays is in the why-you, why-me format. Explain why X would be a great fit for you, being as specific as possible while keeping the programs/professors you mention specific to your interests and your EC’s (if you’re emphasizing the extensive research you’ve done on liver cell apoptosis, you probably shouldn’t talk about Yale’s great theater department in your why Yale essay). The second part should be about explaining why X would want you, what you could specifically contribute to the community to make it better, as evidenced by your EC’s and your awards. For example, if you’ve won awards for your research in protein toxicity, you could talk about how you could make full use of MIT’s ochem labs and how you would be able to contribute to certain programs specific to the school.</p>
<p>SHORT ESSAYS AND SHORT ANSWERS
Note, I wouldn’t really classify Stanford’s roommate essay/intellectual vitality essay under this category. Rather, this is something like the Why Yale essay or Why Columbia essay, which forces you to be very direct. The importance here is to be CONCISE and be SPECIFIC. Style really doesn’t matter when space is so limited. </p>
<p>As for the short answer questions like “Which historical moment would you like to witness?” or “What are two activities you enjoy in your free time?”, try to be creative and try to give your answers some meaning. For example, for the historical moment, I’d think that saying something empty like “the splitting of the atom” or “the signing of the Constitution” would almost work against an applicant, as such answers are very obvious and give the adcoms very little to work with. On the other hand, if you say something like “witnessing the trial of Socrates to better understand the proceedings of the Athenian justice system”, you’ve given the adcoms some insight into your intellectual interests. That said, you might come off as pretentious, but that can be remedied by careful editing, and, at the very least, it’s better to come off pretentious and intellectual than modest and dim-witted. Try to be funny, but don’t force it. Political correctness DOES matter.</p>
<p>GENERAL IMAGE
A couple of the personalized admit notes I’ve received talked about how an admissions officer found this idea I mentioned interesting or how an officer could see me next to him in so and so’s political science class (remember, most of the readers are fairly young). That’s exactly the response you want. You want to come off as someone with whom the admissions officers would like to hang out and with whom they can grab a cup of coffee. Be personable and likable. I think Lirazel offered sound advice. If you’ve already demonstrated one passion adequately through your awards, it’s better to develop another side of you the adcoms haven’t really seen. Generally speaking, that’s not the case, and being able to write a strong essay about your main EC can demonstrate passion. I also agree with her statement about adversity. Don’t come off as whiny and unappreciative, instead, talk about how certain challenges changed the way you approach life (being more creative with your specific examples, of course). </p>
<p>As with any other part of the application, it’s about standing out.</p>
<p>What if your school doesn’t rank?</p>
<p>Dang, tennis/swimming and playing the piano/stringed instruments are really that common among Asian applicants? Those four activities pretty much describe the extent of my ECs, and I’m not good at any of them except for the cello. Thanks for this thread - I’m glad I saw it as a freshman, and I’ll be sure to develop some of my “UN-Asian” interests.</p>
<p>Do applicants to elite schools really know why they were accepted or rejected to the schools they apply to? Even if an applicant is accepted at all schools or rejected at all schools, would he or she know why? Is there be a common reason, or a half dozen different reasons? How can you ever tell?</p>
<p>wow very helpful post. thanks :)</p>
<p>I would say that there’s some great advice on here, especially the idea that it’s all about how you present yourself. This is, in a way, a job interview. And yes, you can BS some parts, but at the end of the day, you are going to be you.</p>
<p>And yes, some small things matter, but as much as I want to think that I got into all of my colleges because of how great I am, I know that luck is the biggest factor. I was read by the right people in the right mindset in the right order at the right time. We are dealing with human nature that cannot be subtracted from college admissions. So yes, points matter to an extent, but they REALLY don’t, in the end. I had two high 700s on the SAT IIs, and then one super low 600, but colleges didn’t seem to mind.</p>
<p>Also, compared to other students who applied to the same colleges as me, I had far from the same vigor. I took my fair share of AP classes, but these took all AP sciences, the hardest class at school and so on, yet they were rejected and waitlisted while I got in.</p>
<p>My ECs were good, but nothing spectacular in any way, save for this service project. </p>
<p>ANYWAYS, yeah for the essay part, I think that’s iffy. I wrote about an influential person and it worked. I think, yes, as general advice, that’s good advice, but for good writers, then any topic shouldn’t be a problem. Also, for the short answer, I just wrote straight what I did, there wasn’t room to put anything else, really.</p>
<p>The whole thing I’m getting at is yes, take some of this advice, and listen to others. But just be yourself and do what you feel is right. My sister HATED my essays, but others like them and I liked them and that’s what mattered. And there’s no way to predict the outcome.</p>
<p>And maybe I’ll get lampooned, but you do NOT need a consultant. I believe in whoever is reading this that you can do it with a little bit of help from teachers and friends and of course, CC. I think it’s a waste of money and those consultants that keep saying they’re doing great success don’t seem to take into account that most of their clients are affluent people, who already have the tools to get into top schools already. Anyways, that’s my advice. Of course, take it with a grain of salt. :)</p>
<p>QuantumRT!
First of all, I have bookmarked this thread.
Secondly, what is your advice to a junior who ONLY has the “stereotypical” EC’s?</p>
<p>I know that piano is overused, but I truly have a passion for it. That being said, I am not PHENOMENAL, but I am definitely above average. By following your advice, I would have NO EC’s 
Please advise me … I have merely a summer before I start applications. No time to learn to breathe fire :(</p>
<p>stars,</p>
<p>demonstrate your passion by putting your talent to use. Go to a senior living center and play dinner music or something like that. </p>
<p>My D had a passion for languages, but had never really used it for anything. She volunteered to work in an ESL program last summer and–while one can never know–it likely helped her application. She’s going to one of her reach schools next fall.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Also, about this, the Collegeboard even states that with their margin of error, both scores are statistically equivalent to an 800. Like, do you think that colleges don’t believe the Collegeboard? But yea, that’s why this sounds ridiculous, there is a margin of error anyways on all tests. And then when you’re comparing Math II with Physics, I can not imagine at all why colleges would penalize you for taking an “easier” test.</p>
<p>"And then when you’re comparing Math II with Physics, I can not imagine at all why colleges would penalize you for taking an “easier” test. "</p>
<p>I don’t think you’re penalized, just some appear more impressive than others. I agree that Physics looks more impressive, having taken both. As a more extreme example, I think that an 800 on Math II is much more impressive than an 800 on a language test if you’re a native speaker of said language.</p>
<p>Wow. This was really helpful. Bookmarked for reference to the essay section.</p>
<p>This is truely eye opening. Thanks alot:)</p>
<p>Awesome advice!</p>
<p>Fantastic thread, poignant and honest. I’m dropping out of school to homeschool my senior year. I hope that’ll make me stand out!</p>
<p>As I stated a few times before, I’m not a sports person. There are only two “ECs” I do in my freetime, but I absolutely love them. One of said ECs would be the study of Japanese language and culture. I fell in love with that ever since my father taught me many things about Japan (he is a black-belt in Karate) and he also interacted with Japanese people.
So I started studying through the history and language and I started loving that shortly after. The other passion I have is writing stories. It gives me the opportunity to unleash my imagination and also to be unique.
Those are the things I love… but how do I present them correctly? I plan to major in scientific fields, mostly biological, which I also enjoy very much. If I could, I would write even 5 essays about my passions >.<</p>
<p>If you’re a sciency-asian, avoid pre-med like the plague on your application! And if you’re a girl, then apply to an engineering major. Also, you’re probably best off not playing a string instrument (unless it’s the bass). The main way for Asians to get into the elite colleges is to avoid the asian stereotypes as much as possible</p>