Advice on Elite College Admissions

<p>Let me just preface this post by saying I’m no ■■■■■. I made this account specifically for this post, as some of the things I will say may be controversial and I don’t want to be forever associated with it. </p>

<p>Now, I’ve seen lots of reflections and advice threads for elite college admissions, and having just been through the process myself, I thought I’d add a bit of my own.</p>

<p>Along with the many hours I’ve spent browsing CC, I’ve worked extensively with a well-respected college admissions consultant and was accepted to multiple HYPS schools, so I imagine my advice will differ somewhat from what’s commonly accepted on CC.</p>

<p>Everything I say will apply to the UNHOOKED applicant applying to elite colleges.</p>

<p>Without further ado:</p>

<p>MINDSET
Yes, it’s important to have back up schools, but that much is obvious. But what’s more often overlooked is the fact that you shouldn’t be applying to these schools unless you feel like you have a fair shot at admissions. Admittedly, an overwhelming majority of people with fair shots get rejected, but the matter of importance is your mindset. Don’t consign yourself to rejection before April 1st (or whenever the school will announce its decisions). </p>

<p>Secondly, it’s important to also realize that THE SMALL THINGS MATTER. So many times have I come across CC where someone asks about whether to send this SAT score or that SAT score, whether to devote more time to this EC or that, and, most of the time, CC’ers respond by telling posters that it doesn’t matter, that the difference is so marginal that adcoms won’t care. That’s the wrong mindset. If applicants approached college admissions with this mindset, a lot of small things could be overlooked and build up to make a large difference. On the other side, if you work at perfecting even the small things, they build up and can make a large difference. Of course, focus on the most important parts of your application (test scores, essays, etc.) but the smaller things such as presentation or the order in which you present your EC’s (serial positioning effect) or which subject tests look better should also receive attention. For example, yes, the difference between 760 Math II SAT and the 750 Physics SAT may appear marginal to the national average, but, given the huge curve of the Math II SAT and given the sheer number of test takers for the Math II test, a 760 in Math II looks much worse than a 750 in Physics, which is generally a more difficult test with a smaller curve. Small things like that DO matter. What’s more, most applicants are on the fence – it’s not like they’re all definite rejections or definite acceptances, so if a small aspect of your application like that could provide the tip factor, then it’s definitely worth considering.</p>

<p>Thirdly, it’s all about standing out, which for many unhooked applicants, means being as UN-Asian as possible. Forgive my lack of political correctness, but there are simply too many Asians applying to elite schools in comparison to the percentage of Asians in the general US population. As such, it’s about moving away from the stereotypically Asian activities. How many times do you think adcoms have seen a tennis-playing, 12-year piano loving, math/science studying Asian/Indian applicant? How many times do you think adcoms have seen even prestigious awards such as Intel semi-finalists or high AIME scores? A quick story, an Asian friend of mine was a semi-finalist in both the Intel and Siemens competition and did pretty well on the AIME, along with taking 22 AP exams and being valedictorian – he was rejected from HYPSM (yes, all 5). Quite frankly, all that’s been done before and done better. I, on the other hand, was not valedictorian, did not even participate in Intel/Siemens or anything of the sort, but was accepted to multiple HYPS schools because I devoted my time to more unique activities. </p>

<p>THE TANGIBLES
College admissions seems to focus much less on the tangibles now than they have done in the past. High test scores and good ranks and a slew of AP classes are a prerequisite for elite colleges, not the deciding factors. </p>

<p>That said, many here on CC (I used to be one of them) believe that above 2300, scores are treated roughly equally and that getting a slightly higher score isn’t worth it. However, after talking to my consultant, it turns out that colleges DO factor in minute differences in SAT scores (after all, various college rankings factor in average SAT scores of admitted students). Simply put, the higher your scores, the higher your chances, even if only marginally (remember, small things add up). Of course, there comes the opportunity cost of preparing to take another test versus devoting time to writing your essays or sponsoring that charity event, and the costs and benefits of taking another test should be analyzed on a case by case basis. Generally speaking, if you believe you can increase your score by even 40 points, it’s definitely worth it to retake the test.</p>

<p>Also, not all subject tests are perceived equally. Getting an 800 on Math II means a lot less than getting an 800 on Chinese as a non-native speaker. The differences in scores and difficulties on certain tests should also be considered on a case by case basis, but generally speaking, you want the highest scores on the hardest tests. </p>

<p>As for course rigor and class rank, it’s ideal to have the highest class rank in the most rigorous classes, but sometimes that’s not possible – as when schools fail to rank on weighted GPA’s. In a situation like that, course rigor is more important than class rank, though your rank should be as high as possible. You can have your counselor explain the ranking system and the adcoms are likely to understand why it’s a lot tougher being valedictorian with 7 AP classes in your schedule as opposed to someone who stuffs his schedule full of basket weaving courses. </p>

<p>If you’ve taken an AP class but did poorly on the exam, it’s still better to report it. You don’t want colleges thinking you’re concealing a 1. The weight colleges give to AP exam scores are debatable, but, as always, you want to do as well as you can. A string of 5’s can only look impressive. </p>

<p>EXTRACURRICULARS
The most basic tenet of EC’s is that passion is more important than well-roundedness. In fact, my consultant has even mentioned that being president of 5 clubs can sometimes work AGAINST you – as they can indicate a lack of dedication and mere resume padding on your part. But what receives less attention is the fact that your EC’s should be UNIQUE as well. </p>

<p>Moreover, most people will tell you not to worry about college admissions in your freshman/sophomore year of high school, but, actually, one of the best ways to demonstrate passion is consistency of participation. If you’ve done something for all 4 years, it definitely shows resolve and dedication. It’s never too early to start thinking about the process.</p>

<p>I think there are three specific things adcoms look for when it comes to EC’s: talent, potential, and uniqueness. It definitely helps to be a USIMO gold medalists or an Olympic-qualifying figure skater, but talent isn’t the end-all. If you can convey a genuine passion and demonstrate the potential to excel in a given field, that can sometimes compensate for the lack of national awards. That said, it’s always better to have the prestigious awards to prove your ability.</p>

<p>Regarding uniqueness, remember, it’s all about standing out. This is where I’ll start to diverge from traditional CC wisdom. Yes, it’s great to do what you love, but it’s also important to stand out to adcoms. I know many here are diametrically opposed to what they view as ‘gaming’ the college admissions system, but, really, how can you expect applicants not to consider how to stand out? It’s not ‘gaming’ the system, it’s being different. Let’s be real here, how much more difficult is it for an excellent Asian math whiz to stand out than a mediocre Hawaiian flame-eater? No, I’m not saying DON’T pursue math and science if you love it, but, unless you’re nationally recognized or something, you should also pursue activities that are more unique, or, at the very least, you should make use of your common EC’s in a different way. Yes, my college admissions consultant agreed with the statement and even recommended to me certain EC’s that will stand out. It’s not always about simply doing what you love for college admissions, though, that being said, doing what you love will generally yield the best results in terms of awards and accolades. In the event that it doesn’t, do something else. </p>

<p>Generally speaking, jobs aren’t terribly unique, especially when you’re tutoring kids or working at a mall, and especially when you’re working just for some extra spending money. On the flip side, if you’re actually working to support your family or working to pay for your tuition, that can be a plus, as it demonstrates resolve and maturity. </p>

<p>At most internships, no matter how good you might think they look, colleges will know that high school seniors won’t be doing much but observing. Even if you intern at a law firm, it won’t help too much. That said, for all of your EC’s, it’s about what you take away from them, so if you manage to get a lot out of your internship and can write a good essay about it, it’s not time wasted.</p>

<p>Moreover, joining school clubs isn’t all that important unless you actively contribute and make unique differences. The same applies for any community service activities. For example, NHS, generally speaking, is completely worthless and hardly worth a spot on the EC section (in fact, many of the students admitted to top colleges in my school decided to quit after a year). The same goes for filing x-rays in a hospital or shadowing a physician – they’re overdone and simply not impressive. Working at soup kitchens, tutoring kids in math, and organizing fundraisers for cancer awareness, though very worthy causes, are also overdone. </p>

<p>That said, it’s also about HOW you do these things. Instead of sitting behind a counter filing paperwork at your hospital, why not use your musical talent and play your violin in the recovery ward? (That’s what I mean by taking a common EC and using it in a different way.) Instead of tutoring your neighbor’s kid or another student in your school, why not get involved in programs that allow you to teach inner-city kids (I take this example from an actual case)? Instead of selling coupons or sending envelopes to neighbors or organizing marathons, why not make use of your artistic talent and sell your artwork in order to raise money for a cause?</p>

<p>It’s all about being unique.</p>

<p>ESSAYS
It’s debatable what the most important part of the application is, but for applicants who lack very prestigious awards or unusual talents, essays are THE deciding factor – this is where you demonstrate your uniqueness, your personality, your leadership, your potential. </p>

<p>Again, I’ll diverge from traditional CC wisdom when I say, no, it’s not all about being yourself. The initial draft of my Common App essay, I felt, was genuinely me – it was real and raw and reflected how I viewed myself and how I viewed my world. But upon having the draft returned to me, I was forced to scrap it entirely – as it was too bitter and too biting and would portray me in a negative light to the admissions committee. It is EXTREMELY important to consider how the admissions committees will view you upon reading your essay. Generally, you want to come off as someone with potential, with character, and with a love for mankind. NEVER write about issues like depression or suicidal thoughts. This isn’t the place for your negative emotions and this definitely isn’t the place to just be you. Political correctness, as much as I despise it, DOES matter in these essays. If you can make the adcoms laugh, you’re already one huge step ahead of everyone else. If you make the adcoms think “Hmm, I’ve never thought of it that way” or “Oh, what a cool idea,” then you’re definitely in a good spot. Also remember, it’s about standing out. I’ve seen a very successful essay written in the form of a play – in one fell swoop, the applicant showed the applicant his personality while also demonstrating his skill and passion as a playwright. </p>

<p>Now, no one can say for sure what the best topics are, but as a general rule of thumb, your essay should correspond with your EC section – it’s best to write about a unique passion that shows the adcoms something about you in the process. Admittedly, that’s not always the case, as there have been successful essays talking about thinking in the shower and whatnot. Moreover, if you’ve overcome significant adversity, it’s definitely worthwhile to write about it (that said, you shouldn’t purposely pit yourself against certain obstacles just so you can write about how you overcame them).</p>

<p>Do NOT write about the person who influenced you the most. 1) It’s very easy to get off track and talk more about the person than about how said person influenced you. 2) The essay is supposed to show the adcoms something about YOU, and it can be difficult doing that when talking about someone else. </p>

<p>Do NOT write about mental illnesses (too much liability on the part of the college).</p>

<p>For Asian/Indian applicants, do NOT write about your heritage/your culture. Sorry, but it’s overdone and it’ll be very difficult to stand out with an essay like that. On the flip side, if you happen to be a URM, then this could be a very potent essay. </p>

<p>Do NOT write about your love for piano or the beauty you find in the intricacies of mathematics/physics or why you want to be a doctor. Again, overdone.</p>

<p>Do NOT write about how you plan to cure cancer or end world hunger. Both difficult to believe and overdone. </p>

<p>Why X essays should be as specific as possible. CC generally believes that there’s no point in naming specific professors, but it’s actually beneficial to be able to talk about specific projects certain professors have worked on. The more you know about the school, the easier it is for the adcoms to believe you actually want to attend.</p>

<p>The 150 word activity essay should briefly highlight your major contributions AND what you’ve learned and how you’ve developed through said activity.</p>

<p>There are so many more pieces advice I can think of for the essay section, but I’ll simply cap this off by saying, take your essays with a grain of salt. Have others read over them. Ask them what they’d think of you if they never met you and had only the paper to judge your personality. Do NOT covet your essay in secrecy, as that can be the biggest folly of all. Also, do NOT think your essay is the greatest piece of work ever created. I’ve seen SO many posts on CC where applicants readily describe their essay as “great” or “amazing” or “teacher said it was the best thing he’s read in his entire career.” Sorry, but it’s simply not true. VERY few essays are of that caliber, and your entire essay depends on how the adcoms perceive you through your words. Thus, as beautifully written as it is, if it doesn’t convey the right image, it’s no good. </p>

<p>OTHER FACTORS
Additional information/supplementary material: I’d refrain from providing too much additional information. No, I don’t think the old age adage “the thicker the file, the thicker the applicant” is true, but I don’t think it’s worth it to tell the adcoms useless information just to have them spend more time looking over your file. If you want to explain certain test scores, it’s best to have your counselors do it. Otherwise, you just look like you’re making excuses. That said, if some schools don’t have a Why Us? essay, it’s not a terrible idea to briefly describe why you would like to attend the university (remember, be specific). As for arts/music supplements, the general consensus is that unless you’re amazing, don’t bother. But that’s not the entire story. Sending one in can show that you’ve confidence in yourself and, what’s more, it couldn’t hurt. At worst, the music department will just put your tape aside without mentioning it. Of course, avoid it if you don’t seriously believe you’ve the talent and don’t send it for the sake of sending one. Also, don’t bother sending the adcoms gift. It’ll come off as trying too hard.</p>

<p>Teacher/counselor LORs: Pick teachers who know you best and pick teachers who can write well. I was going to choose my Calculus teacher, but his writing abilities are…subpar (to put things gently). Really, you’ve very little control over this part of your application, but you can pick teachers who can give telling anecdotes. Also, try to be diverse. No, it’s not absolutely required that you have a math/science rec and a social studies/English rec, but don’t pick teachers who’ll say the same thing about you. As for counselors, if they counselor knows you well, that’s a bonus for you, but they’re really not that important for showing adcoms your personality/your performance in the classroom. Also, as with essays, do NOT be so quick to say your LOR’s are “amazing” or “great” or “the best my teacher’s written in his career.” Again, simply not true. Neither you nor your teachers know exactly what the adcoms want. In fact, you shouldn’t even be reading what they say.</p>

<p>DEFERALL/WAITLISTS
While some schools will explicitly say they don’t want any further information, the general consensus is that it’s not a bad idea to send in an additional letter of intent letting the college know that you would still love to attend and that it’s still your top choice. Also, update them on any major new achievements, and, if possible, second interviews aren’t a terrible idea either. Point being, you don’t want them to put you at the bottom of the pile on the wait-list. That said, there’s no point sending in additional letters of recommendations or additional essays, as that might become a bit overwhelming.</p>

<p>That caps off my overview of college admissions. I’ve tried to word things so as to cause the least amount of controversy, but I know some of you will find some parts of the EC/essays sections objectionable. That said, this is simply what my admissions consultant said and what I’ve learned, so, in the end, I hope it helps some of you out.</p>

<p>This is a very good thread imo. Some of it is unpleasant to digest, but I’ve always suspected that what you’ve stated is true.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>Lol I play tennis and piano. I’m asian. My mom got me started on the piano, and I’ve always liked tennis. Definitely will not be emphasizing these on my app though since I’m not top notch in either</p>

<p>I mostly agree with your points. But it must have been nice to be able to afford a well-respected college admissions consultant.</p>

<p>"As such, it’s about moving away from the stereotypically Asian activities. How many times do you think adcoms have seen a tennis-playing, 12-year piano loving, math/science studying Asian/Indian applicant?..I, on the other hand, was not valedictorian, did not even participate in Intel/Siemens or anything of the sort, but was accepted to multiple HYPS schools because I devoted my time to more unique activities. </p>

<p>This would work only if the Asian applicant has devoted their time to unusual for Asians ECs that the applicant genuinely loves and excels in. If the applicant selects ECs only because they may look good to admissions, and if the applicant doesn’t stand out in those ECs, the applicant probably won’t have significantly boosted their admissions chances to top schools.</p>

<p>The top schools definitely have Asians who participated in the typical ECs for Asians: classical music, math, tennis, and swimming. </p>

<p>Your advice on ECs probably would be most helpful for the many Asian parents who force their kids to participate in classical music, math, tennis, and swimming even though their kids’ natural interests and talents are in ECs that are unusual for Asian students to participate in.</p>

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<p>Or for the Asian kids who put this pressure on themselves unnecessarily. I’ve seen many an Asian friend sign up for all of these activities of their own accord, thinking it will help in college admissions.</p>

<p>OP, great post. The nuances of the admissions process are important to note, and I think CC can be a little overeager to give optimistic chances or to advise against retaking an SAT.</p>

<p>Advice on the essay:
I would, if you are Really Majorly Involved with one activity (if I had felt like it, I could have had a 5-page single-spaced resume of random Latin awards, of which only a few were meaningful, but still came down to a 3/4 page single-spaced of ones that were meaningful, which I attached), not use that as your main essay topic. I devoted my 150 word essay to Latin, and then moved on to talk about all the other reasons I am interesting. I am not a single-track Latin machine. It could work out, but I’d be cautious.</p>

<p>I would also be wary of devoting the main essay to challenges that you’ve overcome. They tend to show your good qualities, but not necessarily the qualities that would make other students want to be around you. The reasons why you would be a valuable and pleasant member of campus should go on parade in the main essay. On the other hand, if those are on display in your essay, more power to you. For example, if you spent your time in a wheelchair trying to make everyone feel better by being upbeat and stuff. My personal “overcoming my year of having spinal surgeries over and over again until they got it right, dammit” essay was entirely about introspective toughness, so I didn’t want that to be my only messenger to the adcoms. I have other good qualities! That would make you want to be around me! I swear! Lol.</p>

<p>Other than that, I totally agree with OP. I’m not quite as qualified as s/he is to opinionate, as I did not get along with my top admissions counselor so well as s/he did with his/hers and I was only admitted to one of HYPS…but I only applied to one, so there we go.</p>

<p>thank you!</p>

<p>As to “don’t talk about the intricacies of math/physics,” it depends. My best essay was about how I learned to learn from my father, and my earliest memory was of him teaching me how a wing works. For a school like Brown, that tries to get people who will stick in the hard sciences, it definitely helped. Heck, I’m pretty sure that essay was a large part of the reason I made it through the first round of Olin’s application process (what sunk me after that was when I told them I wasn’t really interested in traditional engineering/wouldn’t be doing engineering elsewhere).</p>

<p>In my two decades plus years of admissions experience as an HYP alum volunteer, I mostly concur w/the OP. Here are two comments: I agree that kids should strive to make their ECs more meaningful and unique (and frankly some of the OP’s suggestions are solid). However, I would also stress that unique ECs by powerfully driven students are needed because* society needs them* – not just because they can be a potential vehicle to a kid’s elite college application. (Perhaps I’m being a bit Quixotic here but I wish kids would be less conscious of how their activities make them look versus what their activities can really accomplish).</p>

<p>That being said, I’m also a believer in the fact that the huge majority of elite college aspirants just aren’t that interesting enough as high school students and there’s practically nothing they can do as 16, 17 or 18 year olds to change that fact. In my info sessions to students and parents, I tell them that if the school’s teachers and administrators know you to be one of the handful of top students of the entire school, *then that student is a viable candidate to my alma mater – the additional unspoken indication is that if one isn’t known as such, they aren’t *normally viable candidates. But this isn’t something that a student can just will into being. It’s earned and in most cases, not sought after – but just the overflow of the student’s influence among the faculty, staff and student body. </p>

<p>Just my thoughts here.</p>

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<p>This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard in my life, and I can’t believe people care enough to come up with this conclusion.</p>

<p>Just a question in regard to to the “Tangibles” section:</p>

<p>When a college reports its average SAT’s does it report the highest SAT for every admitted students including ones with better ACT’s? Or does it report the highest score based on its own policies (superscoring or ACT’s)</p>

<p>e.g. Would a college report and therefore base its analysis on 2200 SAT even though that student received a 35 on the ACT?</p>

<p>I did well (>2200) on the SAT but better on the ACT.</p>

<p>Largely agree. Just keep in mind that a deficit in one area (test scores, rank) can be compensated for in other areas (ECs, recs, essays). It’s hard, but not impossible. No one factor determines everything.
Good post.</p>

<p>Is being very good at chess a stereotypical Asian activity? Sure, there are lots of chess clubs, and lots of people who play chess, but the number of high school teenagers I’ve competed in regional and state level chess tournaments in FLORIDA (4th most populous state) is SMALL, and MOST of them aren’t even that good, which is why I end up getting 1-5th places a lot and whatnot.</p>

<p>So how about you people stop bragging about being the best chess player in your family or in your high school? There are those of us your age out there who’ve outcompeted the best players from thousands or even tens of thousands of high schools.</p>

<p>Gotta love people who lose two pawns and still think they can win. Ever thought about the lack of coordination of your pieces that’ll eventually get you killed? Come on, man, chess is probably THE MOST DELUSIONAL GAME for beginners. Delusional as hell, I tell you.</p>

<p>This kid in 11th grade from a different high school I’ve met, his dad somehow knew I was interested in chess, and because his son was the best player in his class, told him in front of me, “Make it quick.” What a joke. Finished him off in fewer than 20 moves. Probalby wouldn’t have done that if his dad didn’t say what he said, but oh well.</p>

<p>Delusional as hell, I tell you.</p>

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<p>Yes, I agree. Most of the time, success follows true passion. However, the point I’m trying to make is that, in the event that you aren’t terribly successful at doing what you love, it’s better to do something uncommon than something that many applicants do.</p>

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<p>I’m not saying you can’t write an excellent essay on an overused topics. In fact, I’ve seen pretty good essays about how grandma’s death affected Joe’s outlook on life. But the chance that you come off as trite and derivative is much higher if you choose a common topic than if you choose a unique one.</p>

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<p>As ridiculous as it may appear to you, it’s true. And why wouldn’t people care about analyzing SAT statistics? They’re such a crucial part of college admissions that it’d be more surprising if people DIDN’T care enough to come up with conclusions like this.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure about this, but I do know that you don’t have to submit BOTH SAT and ACT. If you did better on the ACT, don’t bother submitting the SAT score.</p>

<p>^ I would except I have to submit SAT2’s which include SAT1 results. :/</p>

<p>@HitMan</p>

<p>If you take the ACT, you don’t have to take subject tests. At least, that’s how I understand it.</p>

<p>Also, great post, OP.</p>

<p>At some yes but many schools now require 2 SAT2 and the SAT/ACT.</p>

<p>e.g. MIT requires either SAT or ACT and a Math II and either chem or physics SAT2.</p>

<p>Just submit both. I wasn’t particularly proud of my SAT score, but I submitted both my ACT and SAT scores. Things ended up fine for me.</p>

<p>@OP: Well said!!</p>