AES not awarded Dec 15 2019

Colleges & Universities The University of Texas - GENERAL
21

“And then How do you rank someone in a high school class of 650 taking all different subjects?”

We’re in a Dallas area suburb, our school district has the following mulitipliers for different subjects

Regular/Gen Ed classes: 1.1
Pre AP: 1.1
AP & DC: 1.2

Only classes that count towards GPA are English, math, science, social studies, LOTE (languages other than English), academic decathlon, an AP courses not associated with these subjects. Our district uses the weighted numerical GPA to figure class rank.

To ensure that a student is competitive and can place in or near top 10% they’ll have to have all Pre AP or AP classes, with more A’s than B’s.

I’ve had about 10 or so kids in my family (first cousins and nephews/nieces) go to and graduate from UTD and the only ones who got AES (various levels) were all within top 15%. The last one I know of that got the full cost of tuition plus the semester stipend graduated high school last year in the top 3% of his class with a 34 on his ACT.

22

I forgot to add, for everyone outside the top 10%, they have the choice of wether they want their class rank disclosed on their transcript or not.
***typo on my previous post: Pre AP classes have a multiplier of 1.15

23

I think this is the first year without a defined rubric, right? Last year my kid got AES plus stipend at UTD but there was a chart that spelled it out? This year’s approach might be a benefit for a kid with lower rank but great grades and test scores and rigour.

24

Question 1: Should GPA for class rank be separate from the general GPA?
Group 4- “we can see both sides of why you would have a separate GPA. We allow students to take course work outside of the school day can easily be a disadvantage for economically disadvantaged students. “
Group 5- “as a student, I dropped band my 3rd year of HS, to focus on grades and GPA, having a separate GPA would allow students to continue to do things they love”
Group 3 “ We thought it would be good idea to have split GPAs, students can participate in extra curriculars, it would help with students emotional, physical, mental state to cut out some competition”
Group 2 “We were in the middle, students who work hard for their grades, should be rewarded” Group 1 “We stand in solidarity with what has been articulated, we did not settle on a firm answer”
David Wright “I made a pitch because extracurriculars were hurting students GPAs. We discussed creating a level playing field. We want students to participate in courses of high interest and not lose grades. I proposed that we count only the Core Courses (5) “
Ikie Holder ”Keller counts what the state counts- 4 years ELAR, 3 years Math, 4 years Social Studies, 3 years of Science and 2 levels of Foreign Language”
Question 2: What courses should be included in a Class Rank GPA?
Group 1 – “We think that the 5 core is a good idea, but they should be spelled out”
Group 2- “What is our ultimate goal? We have no decision. We must be careful not to turn it into a game to grab points.”
David Wright- “There is always going to be gamesmanship, but we must make sure that the students understand the rules. Any Academic Associate or Counselor sees students making choices based on the grade field”
Dr. Scott- “We might not make any changes, but this committee needs to take into account student interest”
Group 3- “We agreed on the 4X4 and LOTE, maybe having a list of what fits in the GPA. There is still an issue with double blocking some courses like Band or Athletics”
Group 4- If we cut off at 3 courses, some courses especially in science and social studies will need to be considered:”

Group 5” We agreed if the committee creates a list of acceptable courses, and we discussed some of the issues that parents and students are manipulating to their advantage”
Question 3: When should we stop calculating GPA for Class Rank?
David Wright- informed committee the reason that the cut off is at semester, to make calculations easier for counselors.
Holly McCanlies “This also impacted scholarships, but this decision was made when we had one high school, it is time to revisit this issue.”
Group 2- it is logistically unfeasible to make the date later, I don’t think it would work any later.
Group 3- We discussed ending it at the 5th six weeks. - Skyward now does some GPA calculations, so that takes some of the pressure off of counselors. We also discussed teaching students to continue to work and finish strong.”
Group 4- “We recommend that calculations end at semester, to insure correct processes.”
Group 5-“It takes teamwork, but it is feasible to move grade verifications later, it is a better reflection of the whole kids, holds them and us accountable to presenting a true reflections. Some of it depends on what the district is capable of doing- how late you can clear absences? “
Group 1- “We are in favor of pushing the time back, We experienced that the person who gave the valedictorian speech, once grades were done, were dropped to #3, and that is not a good feeling.”
Question 4: What changes, if any, should be made concerning class weight?
Group 4: “I like Keller’s system, I would give no weight to TCC, but that would be too radical a change. I like that TCC gets 5 points, AP gets 10 points, and I don’t think it is on the same level of rigor as an AP course.”
Group 3 “If we lower the value of TCC then we are not following the vision of, we would be killing the TCC program that we are trying to develop. Outside of the state of TX, they determine what a TCC course counts for.”
Group 2 “We were all over the map. Why are some things weighted, and others not?” I used to teach PAP BIMM, but we deleted those because they did not lead to an AP exam. IF we leave what we have in place now, should we ask the question as to why AcaDec is weighted?”
Group 1” Ditto. If a kid is committed, why can’t they get weighted credit?”
Group 5 “We do not see an issue with TCC. The two do not have the same goal, TCC is a way to get credit in an area that may not be my field of study for the future. I do not think that different weights will kill any programs- because it is my goal to guide you to what is best for you. Kids tend to take courses based on their needs. We have to keep in mind that the goals of the two are not the same. “

Homework: Research EIC (Local) policies from other districts. Prepare to work with your group to make a recommendation.
Future Meetings:

25

This was the board discussion last year and they came up with something to apply for the class of 2023 but we got screwed with the older policy of all grades count towards ranking, no difference in points towards ranking for non AP, AP or community college classes

Looks like they were inventing a new wheel instead of following STANDARDS!

26

I think you are over simplifying things. Your school does weight AP and similar classes.

But it sounds like they count everything into GPAs. That’s fine. Many, many districts do. Our district (one of the “highest performing” in the state) counts all classes but it has the option exempt classes from your GPA. Students here are so uber Rank focused that they don’t want their As in classes like Band (4pts) to lower their rank. So if they used the band for a PE credit their freshman year - they can exempt it the following 3 years. And their electives of AP Art History, AP European History etc can help boost their Rank.

It doesn’t sound like you were that familiar with the way your school ranks. Frankly, I’m the kinda mom that was not focused on it, as long as my kids are doing their best.

But we live in a district where families are focused on rank starting in junior high. And these are the people you are competing against for AES.

Heck my youngest is advanced in math. She took algebra in 7th. In 8th she took pre-AP geometry. When the pace was too much for her, I inquired about her doing regular. That was not at option at the JR high level. Mainly due to small amount of kids that advanced were already focused on HS rank.

27

Our school district no longer includes band/orchestra/theater etc in class rank for that exact reason…too many students were dropping fine arts to play the GPA game. Our large, competitive district is trying to take a more holistic approach and encourage students to be more well rounded.

28

Exactly In our district kids are still playing GPA and ranking game till it’s fixed

29

Ranking is one of the criteria to award AES and we all know students can play with it, in those schools which allows them to abuse the system to raise the GPA or improve their ranks.
There should a universal system to do ranking based on fixed criteria followed by all school districts throughout texas then you can award a scholarship based on ranking. Texas should have provided guidance on how to do ranking when it made it into a law to have ranking in schools.

30

I think AES schools expects the kids they pay to attend on their dollar to have great HS grades. It is the point of merit scholarships. Admission to competitive TX colleges is a different beast to this discussion about merit money. Getting C grades is always going to hurt a GPA.

31

There is guidance and rules (foundation plus endorsements) that places a minimum standard to qualify for top 10 percent. So it keeps people from talking easy classes/light schedule/not college prep and qualifying for top 10 percent.

Texas is a HUGE state. And for better or worse autonomy in education is built into the state DNA. Districts have to have some freedom in what they offer, how they grade, discipline and rank. There is guidance, requirements that things be defined, but latitude within a framework.

32

I have said this before - but I think the University of Texas at Dallas’ reputation of generous merit scholarships sets a lot of students up for the expectation/disappointment when they do not get it.

Yes- they give a sizable percentage of of merit aid. BUT MORE THAN 75% of the incoming freshmen receive no merit aid. It’s actually nearly 80%. (Last year of the 3085 first time, full time enrolled incoming freshmen - 658, or 21.33% received merit aid).

The info is in the H section of the common data set https://www.utdallas.edu/ospa/files/CDS_2018-2019_Final.pdf

I am assuming the merit aid includes NMF - and AES monies. So when you take out the 170 NMF out of the equation - you are talking 488 students. So only 15.82% of the non NMF freshman class of 2022 had merit aid.

33

My son recently received AES at the $6000 level. We were disappointed as we were expecting more - recruiters mentioned full tuition for his stats in previous years. He had 1450 SAT, 3.9/4.0 GPA but is only now taking his first AP course. That likely hurt his GPA and standings. Class rank was 21%.

He has taken Pre-AP math since the middle of his sophomore year. His suburban high school did let him take any advanced classes his first year as he has dysgraphia plus Asperger’s. His essay was in part about how he overcame his dysgraphia to be successful in high school but AES doesn’t look at the essay so the AES committee had no way of knowing. He applied to UTD in August and got quickly accepted.

I feel his disability is something they could/should have considered to understand why he did not have more rigor But we are not going to stress over it. He has made it into at least one other UT campus with an academic scholarship covering full tuition plus that we also liked a lot.

He also got an automatic scholarship at Univ of Alabama that almost covers the out-of-state tuition. Thinking right now is he may consider UTD or other top-tier schools for Grad School and go somewhere less expensive for undergrad.

34 
I feel this thread has really lost it's way on what a merit award is for. UTD uses merit $$ for top students, kids that might well have been at UT and TAMU, and OOS NMFs. I am really amazed that posters expect to get a break for lower grades, and lack of rigour. Just the population growth will mean UTD (and UH, etc)  will fill up without the need to buy students.
35

Lonestarguy
Your son did an amazing job!
Congratulations!

36

Sybylla I have no clue what you are talking about
I am one of the posters

My stats …I didn’t get a dime from UT Dallas …my bad luck! Rigged system!

SAT 1520
GPA 4.5
Took 11 AP courses with mostly A and couple B
Who cares if got a C in French 2 (my bad)
NMS commended
Applied in Mid Oct ?
Caught in flawed ranking system in my school
(Does one C in French trumps everything that I achieved in 4 yrs)

37

It’s understandable that you’re disappointed, but I think you misunderstood how competitive the grants are. They aren’t automatic. The college considers a number of factors including course rigor, so the students at your school who took less rigorous classes to get an easy A aren’t going to be considered in the same light as someone who took more rigorous courses.

Your student handbook lays out pretty clearly how courses are weighted. The only courses that are weighted are AP, IB, and dual enrollment courses, and they’re all weighted the same way. I don’t think colleges separate AP, IB, and dual enrollment courses into separate tiers. Courses are either weighted or unweighted. I think you’re putting too much emphasis on weighting and rank.

Didn’t you have to create a 4-year plan with your guidance counselor in 9th grade (that you and your parents signed off on) that involved a discussion of what would be required for admission and financial aid at TX colleges? If not, stop in to see your guidance counselor because they can help you understand the process. It’s also a good place to share your concerns.

I think you believe that if only core classes were counted that your ranking would be much higher. I don’t know if that’s true. You still have a C in French, which is a core course, and “a few B’s”, so if you’re competing against students with all A’s your rank will still be lower than theirs. The course rigor at your school compared to other schools in TX may matter too. And while GPAs may be calculated differently, colleges can recalculate all of them to include only the courses they want. So if they want to consider only the core courses, they can discard all the other grades and recalculate GPA using only those grades.

I see that you listed your weighted GPA. What’s your unweighted GPA? That’s the one colleges generally use.

38

Did you tour UTD @cowboy007 ? I just remembered that when we toured - I was pretty sure, based on my daughter’s rank - she would not be getting AES. I found the presentation forthcoming.

Going into the tour - everyone had talked about how plentiful merit scholarships were, I had the impression most students got something. Which based on the published data - that is clearly not the case.

39

Look, it really sucks, but this is really common, you had cs and bs and your competition have a’s and got NMF. If UA loves you, take it. You are a great candidate for admission at many schools, but they just don’t HAVE to give you merit money. If you look at your UW GPA (hand score it from your grades) you would see that this might be an issue at most schools other than UA. Rank is a Texas thing, but UW GPA is an everywhere else thing.

40

I think you are very right. It sucks but is so common. Great students at highly performing high schools are not necessarily at the top of their class. At my daughter’s school - the top quarter cutoff was slightly over 4.0 (Something like 4.018). So if you got straight As - but did not take any AP or Pre-AP classes that were weighted “5” - you were not going to make top quarter. And there were “honor graduates” with a 3.5 or better GPA that were not in the top half of the graduating class.

With her test scores/GPA my DD could have gone to out of state schools that were giving her scholarship monies that made them slightly less than what we pay at UTD without any scholarship funds. But for what she wants to do UTD is the best fit.

I’m hopeful that she will be able to pick up some scholarship funds next year, since she is performing well above average at UTD currently. But time will tell if we find any.