<p>We will get there rather soon, this intermediate step is designed to collapse, numbers do not match at all, arithmetic never lies, it is not an opinion, 2+2 has to be equal to 4, if it is falling short, then the system is not a survivor. This fact is in many pres’s speaches way back several years ago. It will be simple at the end and much less costly as many will simply stop getting care, they will let expire, just like in ohter place (UK, Canada,…others).</p>
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<p>I think this is BS. Following that logic, under ACA we now have a group of individually insured and pooled together that is bigger than most/any single empleees group. So why is the cost not low?</p>
<p>$5 increase and no longer can be grandfathered? That’s a sham. That’s not any different from saying nothing will be grandfathered.</p>
<p>tom, the only way to get cooperation is if everyone gets something from this. I thought that’s why we had to pay extra tax not to burden general public. We can’t expect people to cooperate when their plans are canceled and their premium increases visibly. Also, they should have been telling the truth. It’s hard to be cooperative after being lied to.</p>
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<p>Here’s one more reason it’s hard to cooperate,</p>
<p>[Congress</a> governs self under ‘Obamacare’ - Yahoo Finance](<a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/news/congress-governs-self-under-obamacare-072141203.html]Congress”>Congress governs self under 'Obamacare')</p>
<p>Why are the dems so coy about if their staff are going to be on the exchange?</p>
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<p>You are in one of several groups of people who will be badly #######, er, I mean, “hurt” by these changes. I gave up my grandfathered plan last year to reduce my premiums by nearly $400, so I am still almost $4000 ahead after 1 year. I don’t know what my new premium would have been on my former $1100/month plan. I downgraded to a $680/month plan rather than pay over $1k. Now my $680/month nongrandfathered plan has been cancelled, and the equivalent replacement plan is over $1500/month. I will probably get subsidies. Meanwhile, frustration mounts:</p>
<p>I get an email, subject: “You have a marketplace message waiting!” so I go to the healthcare.gov website, log in to my account and there is no message, no place to find a message, no message about messages, just annoying.</p>
<p>But I do notice there is now a tab “SEE PLANS AND PRICES IN YOUR AREA” so I click on that to see what I get, click on a few boxes, looking for me and my spouse, every page has a big warning that prices do not reflect possible subsidies, and I see a long list of plans and prices and the prices just look way too low, ie $600 to $800 per month, so I wonder if I am looking at prices for one person instead of 2, so I go back to change my information. I notice when I put in just myself the system asks me for age (over or under 50), but if I enter me and my wife it does NOT ask me for our ages. Buggy buggy. Anyway, the premiums for me only are even lower, so I have no idea where these numbers are coming from and can’t reconcile them with the much higher premiums I see on the BCBS website. I will just have to wait and see if I ever get to the point of being able to enroll in a healthcare plan on the healthcare.gov website. Last time on (last night) I was able to complete the application process but could go no farther due to the “verification” system being down.</p>
<p>“So why is the cost not low?”</p>
<p>The cost is about the same and in many cases less. It only seems more because the individual is paying the full cost of the policy, unless they qualify for a gov’t subsidy. In large group plans the employer picks up the lions share of the cost.</p>
<p>I would be ok if everyone’s policies were subsidized by the gov’t, and I had to pay more in taxes to cover it, but sadly, most would not. That is why the public option didn’t go anywhere, and single payer was a complete non starter. </p>
<p>As to your other point about plans being cancelled - here is an article by the economist whose model led to Romneycare (which is exactly like Obamacare.)</p>
<p>"Gruber summarized his stats: ninety-seven per cent of Americans are either left alone or are clear winners, while three per cent are arguably losers. “We have to as a society be able to accept that,” he said. “Don’t get me wrong, that’s a shame, but no law in the history of America makes everyone better off.”</p>
<p>[Obamacare’s</a> Three Per Cent : The New Yorker](<a href=“http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/10/obamacares-three-per-cent.html]Obamacare’s”>Obamacare’s Three Per Cent | The New Yorker)</p>
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<p>Everyone just paying out of pocket would solve a lot of problems and is very straight forward.</p>
<p>Now that you bring up Romney care, here’s Robert Reich for you.</p>
<p>[Why</a> Republicans Have No Business Being Upset About Obamacare | Perspectives, What Matters Today | BillMoyers.com](<a href=“http://billmoyers.com/2013/10/29/why-republicans-have-no-business-being-upset-about-obamacare/]Why”>Why Republicans Have No Business Being Upset About Obamacare | BillMoyers.com)</p>
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<p>Just as I thought, the industry will be making a lot of money and we will be holding the empty bag.</p>
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How? I am not trying to be confrontational, I do not see how this would work. I have had more than my share of medical problems, and “paying out of pocket” would have at best ended my education and possibly my career as well (since I am required to stay solvent). Not being hyperbolic there, BTW, I am being serious.</p>
<p>A heck of a lot of medical care falls into two categories: “this is important, but it costs so much I will put it off” and “this is financially ruinous, but I have no choice”. Paying out of pocket addresses neither of those.</p>
<p>NJres, when you look at the “See Plans and Prices in your area” section, they are giving individual prices for 27 year old (in the under 50) and 50 year old (in the over 50). This way all prices seem lower than you should be, unless you fall in that exact age.</p>
<p>The same with family or H/W coverage, they use a lower age group than what you are, so the prices are totally not accurate for you.</p>
<p>Here’s the exact info from Healthcare.gov:</p>
<p>The table below shows premiums for the following rating scenarios:</p>
<p>Adult individual = age 27
Adult individual = age 50
Family = 2 adults age 30, 2 children
Family single parent = 1 adult age 30, 2 children
Couple = 2 adults age 40, no children
Child = 1 child any age</p>
<p>I was sitting here thinking, why did they choose 27? What an odd age.</p>
<p>then I realized that’s the first year a ‘kid’ has to buy their own insurance now.</p>
<p>duh. 
A little slow on the uptake this morning.</p>
<p>Oh I see. So I guess what I got was for a 50 years old. It was quite cheap and I was pleasantly surprised. Did they mean to be deceeptive to keep people happy long enough until it’s too late?</p>
<p>Who knows what they meant. Even if you think you know what they are saying, you might turn out to be wrong.</p>
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<p>The cost is not low for a very simple reason: American health care costs a lot of money per capita. If we’re going to cover everybody (under 65) with insurance, the insurance is going to cost a lot of money, because it has to cover everyone’s health costs.</p>
<p>Employer-supplied insurance is not cheap. Those of us who have been covered by insurance from our employers should post what that insurance cost last year (it’s on the W2). I don’t have my husband’s W2 handy, but I’ll dig it out later. Emilybee already posted; her insurance for her family was over $16K last year.</p>
<p>Annual premiums for employer-sponsored family health coverage reached $16,351 this year, up 4 percent from last year, with workers on average paying $4,565 towards the cost of their coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation/Health Research & Educational Trust (HRET) 2013 Employer Health Benefits Survey. Our family is right on the average for what I would categorize as a medium plan; decent protection, but with moderate co-pays and deductibles.</p>
<p>I think many of us with coverage from work have been underinformed about just how much our companies pay. My family grumbles about our portion and how that has increased when in fact we have been sheltered from the actual cost because it is part of our compensation. I feel strongly that insurance should be de-coupled from employment. I recognize that this might “feel” more expensive, but it’s more transparent. I’d rather have a higher salary and pay for my health care apart from employment. I wonder how much taxes drive the situation; companies can deduct their insurance costs, while individuals cannot in most situations. </p>
<p>I really like the analogy upthread to car care. I want insurance for unexpected big expenses (cancer, hip replacement, etc.) but am willing to pay for the maintenance out of pocket (annuals, mammograms, etc.). </p>
<p>Very complex problem indeed!</p>
<p>Is the company’s contribution towards health care on the w2 or just the employee’s contribution?</p>
<p>The company’s contribution and the employee’s contribution are both on the W2. It’s a new requirement this year (on the W2s we got this year for 2012), to let people know how much their health insurance is really costing. A lot of us with employer-supplied health care didn’t realize how expensive it is.</p>
<p>I mentioned before a friend’s costs with Anthem. I looked at the w2 (an email). There was a premium cost and a total deduction cost. That is it? That includes the employer costs too?</p>
<p>In addition, last year, both my and H’s employers listed company contribution to health insurance as a line item on our annual review. They wanted to make sure we knew how much that benefit was, probably for employee satisfaction/retention purpose.</p>
<p>“Emilybee already posted; her insurance for her family was over $16K last year.”</p>
<p>Are you sure that includes our share of the cost? I thought that line 12 on the W2 only included the employer’s share. I think our share of the costs show up in another box. </p>
<p>So I think it’s $16,690 employer portion of the cost and we pay an additional $320/month as our share of the premium - so the total cost of the insurance is a bit above $20K/year.</p>
<p>And my group covers over 1.2 million people.</p>
<p>So, I just asked an average 20 year old (not my kid) how he was being affected by Obamacare. He said, " I don’t know. Wouldn’t that just make it free?"</p>
<p>Maybe, maybe not, I guess. But some people are not very well-informed.</p>