<p>Speaking of the wife’s family, I wonder if they called the police when they saw their son-in-law’s photo on TV? We know the wife didn’t. She called Speedbump to warn him…</p>
<p>
Obviously, you want this to be true, but it may not be. The most recent reports suggest that he called her. Of course, she may still have warned him.</p>
<p>He could probably be buried in the city potters field until his family can come up with something better.</p>
<p>[Potter’s</a> Fields Still Serve Nameless Poor - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“Potter's Fields Still Serve Nameless Poor”>Potter's Fields Still Serve Nameless Poor)</p>
<p>from the above article
BOSTON — The people buried in the potter’s field at Fairview Cemetery did not always go gentle into that good night, but they went empty-handed, and sometimes unidentified.</p>
<p>Fairview contains the city’s welfare lot, the place where the poor and the unknown are buried. Most big cities have some version of a potter’s field. Boston’s has been getting more use in recent years, with the area hard-hit by recession</p>
<p>They haven’t arrested the wife, so presumably they don’t currently have strong evidence that she committed a crime. Nobody but her really knows what she said on the phone–she may have told him to give himself up before he got himself killed. I don’t think that would be a crime.</p>
<p>Still, it’s highly likely she knew what he was up to. How culpable she is, legally and ethically, will require more facts.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you check the Pew Attitudes survey: <em>majorities</em> of Muslims in most countries believe that Arabs were not responsible for 9/11 and that it was a US or Jewish plot. </p>
<p>And large percentages depending on the country of Muslims agree that suicide bombing is justified at least some of the time. </p>
<p>We know that both brothers were “9/11 Truthers”- ie that it was really the US government that was responsible for destroying the WTC and attacking the Pentagon. </p>
<p>If we want Muslims to repudiate the radical elements among them (and we should), then what about US society repudiate these “9/11 Truthers” among us who with their pseduo scientific conspiracies? What has been the result of their 10 years of masturbation on this topic? Impressionable young men (like Loughner and the hat brothers) seduced by lurid conspiracies and radical action. </p>
<p>There are a couple of these 9/11 “Scholars” for Truth & Justice Members over at UMass. I wonder what they think of the flames they fanned?</p>
<p>I follow both Hunt and Zooser on this one. Our own values, character and decency should motivate us to appropriately dispose of his remains. But as Zooser said, I don’t think Tamerlan will issue and any complaints at this point. Thus, potter’s field may the the end result.</p>
<p>And yes, I would expect a Christian pastor to minister to a condemned man, or an alleged killer. Should pastors not have made fellowship with the Tucker woman whom was on Death Row in Texas? And I don’t think much of the imam who reportedly would refuse to provide burial rights to the the dead suspect. That attitude sort of validates prejudices that some folks have about Muslims.</p>
<p>Lack of respect for enemy dead is one of the oldest manifestations of our aggressive nature, the kind that religion was supposed to tame. </p>
<p>In the Iliad, after Patroclus is killed by Hector - while dressed in Achilles’ golden armor - Achilles kills Hector and drags his body around and around the city. The great point at the very end of the story is that Priam comes to Achilles and asks for his son’s body and Achilles relents and allows Hector breaker of horses to be buried in the traditions of Troy. You see? The Iliad’s “real” name is The Rage of Achilles. It describes his deep funk over trivial insults and a pride that lets his beloved friend die in his place - when Achilles of course could not be killed - and then the ebbing of his rage with the maturity of loss. The question has always been: what is his rage? For life’s insults and petty agonies? Or for death and the experience of loss? One of the great scenes in all human literature is when Achilles responds to a group of captured Trojan youth who beg for their lives: why not now? don’t we all die? why not here? why not by my hand? You can feel the anger of the man-god. The sword hand ready to cut throats. Why not now? The very question taken by religion and turned, we suppose, into something better. When God asks you to move, don’t wait for the bread to rise. Why not now? Why not me? Why not here? </p>
<p>In many of the other great Greek tragedies, the failure to observe funeral rites brings the wrath of the Gods. Respect for death - thanatos - is respect for life - thanos. </p>
<p>I think it’s a great pity that 3000 years after Homer, 2500 years after the great Greek dramatists, we show the same disrespect as then.</p>
<p>As an explanatory note, Hector puts on Achilles golden armor so Achilles confronts himself in battle. He sees himself reflected in the polish of his own self. He is slaying himself. When he drags Hector’s body around the city, he is burning off his anger at himself, refusing in a sense to bury himself. When he accepts Priam, he realizes it is over, that it is done. He may be a man-God but he can’t bring life to Patroclus. He can’t resurrect himself. Why not now? Why not me?</p>
<p>Hmmm, what was said in this thread that led some to think that anything other than burying the body in the ground or at sea, or cremating it should occur? Lets not get all righteous and dramatic now.</p>
<p>
The non-fanatic Muslim Imams are staying away from this for the same reason that the uncle went to such lengths to over-exaggerate what “losers” could do something like bomb innocent people. Muslims are afraid of being considered terrorists or terrorist supporters. If a Christian minister thought they should perform a burial out of duty, then most people would take their word for it. However, Muslims try much harder to separate themselves from things like these, because many people would be ready to jump the gun with an accusation of sympathizing with the terrorist.</p>
<p>
I would like to point out that, even though I think that the idea that the US government plotted 9/11 is a false, largely unsupported claim, believing in that conspiracy theory is not the same thing as thinking terrorism as justified. Many conspiracy theorists still believe that terrorism is evil.
I would like to ask, however, if we know how reliable this survey is in the first place. Perhaps it is very reliable, but I would like to see it for myself before jumping to conclusions.
Also, the majority of Muslims worldwide do not live in Arab countries.</p>
<p>
Two things:
- If we’re talking about a country such as Saudi Arabia, a civilian could get in trouble for openly condemning terrorism.
- We don’t know what “some of the time” is referring to. While I personally think that suicide is awful no matter what the scenario, bombing a group of soldiers you’re at war with is not terrorism, while harming civilians is.</p>
<p>The question of whether a suicide bombing is ever justified is an interesting one. I think if you added “of innocent civilians,” it would be hard to ever justify it. But Hollywood gives us situations in which we cheer it–think about the actions of the Randy Quaid character in the movie “Independence Day.” He destroys the alien ship with a kamikaze attack. We don’t trouble ourselves much about whether the aliens brought their children along on the ship.</p>
<p>
If an Imam does take part in the burial, he sympathizes with a terrorist. If not, he’s showing how indecent Muslims can be. Where are Muslims to go? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I hate to be repetitive, but I just noticed this sentence, and I find it very amusing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Saying “its not the same thing” is a quibble. What do you think the logical consequence is for an impressionable young man if the causus belli of the GWOT is 9/11 but literally everyone around him thinks 9/11 was perpetrated by the US government and Jews to oppress the poor Muslims? After all they can point to bunch of American “scholars” who have proof its an Inside Job.</p>
<p>Here is the Pew survey and you can see in the countries they polled highest percentage that believe the ACTUAL EVENTS is 22%. You have to check different years to get other countries because Pew mixes up that and things like the suicide bombing question.
[Chapter</a> 3. Islamic Extremism | Pew Global Attitudes Project](<a href=“http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/21/chapter-3-islamic-extremism/]Chapter”>Chapter 3. Islamic Extremism | Pew Research Center)</p>
<p>Its the leftist extremism that we allow to fester in the US that feeds these 3rd World extremists. How can we expect Muslims to repudiate their extremists when we cant do the same? There were plenty of these Inside Job idiots front and center at Occupy and when was their even a tut-tut in the press?</p>
<p>I’d hate to be an imam in this situation. You could actually be exposing yourself, your family, and your congregation to danger by doing anything that appears to show sympathy to the terrorists. On the other hand, your duty as a religious leader may be telling you that you should do something.</p>
<p>This is a little like what happens when somebody who is accused of something like this needs a defense lawyer–you know that everybody deserves a defense and is considered innocent until proven guilty in our system–but you also know that taking the case will put you in for a lot of hateful criticism. These things aren’t easy.</p>
<p>
Right–why can’t we be more like Paraguay?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Considering that in the movie, the aliens were engaged in an unprovoked attack killing billions of people, if they happened to have brought their children along during an act of war and purposely put them in harms way, they were the ones responsible if the Randy Quaid character killed them while engaging in an act of self-defense.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Because we have shores and are not landlocked. </p>
<p>Of course, that is not a plausible answer to an obvious rhetorical and sarcastic question. :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Exactly what I am saying. Amazing we cant make progress on these issues with your clear headed thinking.</p>
<p>
Disliking or even hating the US government is not the same as believing that harming innocent people is okay. I don’t see it as a quibble. I see the two ideas as being completely unrelated. Many terrorists and extremists don’t think that 9/11 was by the US government, and believe that is was a heroic “Islamic” act. Many people who believe that 9/11 is an inside job think that terrorism is absolutely disgusting, and that the US government is a horrible hypocrite for claiming to fight evil while committing evil itself.</p>
<p>
The poll given asked whether people believed a group of Arabs carried out the attacks, not whether people believe the US government carried out the attacks. I would like to ask these people who they actually believe carried out the attacks before making assumptions.
It’s interesting that the percentage of people who believed that it was carried out by a group of Arabs decreased from 2006 to 2011. I wonder why.</p>
<p>lergmom, your post is terrific</p>
<p>
So if you were asked whether suicide bombing was justified “some of the time,” you’d answer…?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yeah, this would be a quibble. They dont have Opus Dei in mind.</p>