Binge drinking is a serious problem at colleges, but it’s not a Lehigh specific problem. Instead it’s a problem at the vast majority of non-commuter US colleges, most likely including every college on the OP’s list. Several surveys have found that ~40% of college students binge drink (defined as 5+ drinks on single occasion for men or 4+ for women). I’m sure a student can avoid or participate in excessive drinking at Lehigh or any other college on the list, depending on his/her choices. There was a study listed on the forum awhile back (https://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/media/Journal/082-Presley.pdf ) that showed the following characteristics that were more/less correlated with excessive drinking, listed roughly in order of strength:
College Being Located in Northeast*
Living in Fraternity Housing
Greek Member
Living on Campus
Being <21
Being Male
*May relate to colder winter weather decreasing likelyhood of leaving housing
@Rgbtexas Thank you for your service on the fraternity advisory council. How long ago did you serve? From what I hear, most parties now are held off-campus.
“So don’t base decisions on how many got in from your hs or state”
You should definitely look at your high school Naviance or similar information early on to figure out your list. I don’t know why people would recommend against doing something like that. It would eliminate in many cases colleges like UNC in favor of UM, UW, UIUC, Purdue et…, which is good.
The data I have, and it’s a small sample because not a lot of kids apply to UNC from local schools but UNC had a lower acceptance rate than MIT and one year, took zero kids from a hs I’m familiar with. This was an especially strong year for that hs, 6 or 7 into MIT, 4 into Cal Tech, but zero for UNC?
" you don’t know their apps."
I know some of their apps, and there is no rational explanation for no one getting into UNC that year except for the OOS quota. Unless you think those kids getting into MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford Harvard, UCB were flukes. And that’s just stem, the non-stem got into Chicago, Georgetown, NU, Brown etc.
BTW, I’m not against the quota, public schools should be fit to operate as they see fit for their residents.
It amazed me that so many people experienced the UNC acceptance rate issue. I thought it was just me and some HS’s in NJ. My D19 did get into UNC eventually after the initial wait-listed but she wouldn’t pick UNC anyway, as she preferred CMU, JHU, UCB, UCLA, UMich OVER UNC . And no I don’t think it was a fluke that she got accepted to those schools.
If i didn’t know any better, I would have said UNC has something against NJ, because, really, why would they rejected so many top NJ students? Why would they impose quota per state? That just lowers the caliber of their student body. I mean just look at their average GPA/test score, it doesn’t represent a school with 5-8% acceptance rate for OOS. Seems counter productive. But what do I know?
UNC has an 18% OOS acceptance rate. They are not going to take the majority from any one state. It’s not lowering the caliber… there are strong kids all over.
My point was your app is you. Not just Naviance figures. This isn’t about blocking, say, NJ kids en masse. There are so many top kids in NJ, it’s one of the unique sub pools. And yes, there was a cap on UNC CH OOS admits. Some hubbub at one point. Not by state.
So Naviance and knowing what happened locally are helpful. But not definitive.
I do not for a second believe it’s a NJ quota. There are plenty of excellent students in NC, the flagship’s first obligation is to serve them. Don’t assume they’re subpar. (Lol, just as NJ families shouldn’t consider Rutgers subpar.)
Yes and those same many top kids in NJ got into the Ivies, MIT, Stanford, UChicago, UCB and the likes, with much lower acceptance than 18%, but rejected from UNC, as many had stated here.
Like i said before, I i don’t have evidence (nor do you, other than the overall OOS rate) but the numbers just don’t add up for NJ kids.
And no, I don’t think for a second UNC is subpar - it is silly to think that it is. It’s a great school. I don’t think Rutgers is either, but if i had to pick, UNC over Rutgers any day.
“Why would they impose quota per state? That just lowers the caliber of their student body.” We disagree that there is a state specific quota. And that not taking more NJ kids lowers calibre.
They’re looking for adequate geo diversity. They don’t owe NJ kids more than other OOS kids. And it’s no evidence of much when one college picks a kid and others may reject. Happens all the time.
I’m out of this sub chat. Maybe someone will find state specific numbers enrolled.
Similar trend for our HS and near by HSs. Certainly take all of these into account for S23. UNC won’t be on his list for sure. There is no point and not worth the effort.
Those results are not that unusual when dealing with public schools operating under different rules. In Texas, it is certainly possible to be admitted to HYPSM but denied to the state flagship as outside the top 6%. Applicants consider these things when crafting their list in every state.
Your child is never settling is they are going to a school that they love. One of the reasons that our goal was never to apply to a college that she has not visited. She also attended fly ins at a few schools to get a better feel for them. We did have a few addidtions to her list which were recommended by a college counselor at the last minute, however if she is accepted we will go and visit and see if it’s a good fit. Another thing that my DD decided to do was share her college list with only a few people mostly family and counselors/consultants and only share with others once she has made a decision. This relieves her from the competetiveness, pressure and opinions. I support her but can’t say that I haven’t been a little loose with the lips here on CC. She is not at all interested in posting or reading on CC so I believe that I am safe.
UNC sets 82% of their class from in state, leaving the remaining 18% of the class from out of state. UNC being required to limit the class to 18% of students from out of state does not mean the OOS acceptance rate is 18%. The lawsuit lists an overall OOS acceptance rate of 13.52% during the multiyear sample from 2011-12 to 2017-18. It’s a safe bet that the acceptance rate is substantially lower today, with the increased selectivity… probably on the order of 10%. The acceptance rate is even lower for non-URMs. During the final lawsuit year, white OOS students only had a 8.5% acceptance rate.
As stated above, only 18% of the class is out of state. If you are looking at 25th/75th percentiles, they are not going to reflect this 18%, as all of the 18% could theoretically fall above the 75th percentile. I’d expect nearly all of the unhooked OOS to be above 75th percentile. The author of the lawsuit analysis writes:
Some specific numbers comparing in state and out of state admits are below. If you only compared unhooked in state vs unhooked out of state, the differences would be even more stark.
Math SAT – OOS is ~1 SD higher than in state
Verbal SAT – OOS is ~1 SD higher than in state
Academic Program Rating – OOS is ~0.5 SD higher than in state
Academic Performance Rating – OOS is ~0.5 SD higher than in state
EC Rating – OOS is ~0.6 SD higher than in state
Essay Rating – OOS is significantly higher than in state (no SD listed)
Personal Qualities Rating – OOS is significantly higher than in state (no SD listed)
Just to be super clear, the 18% allowable max for out of state students also includes international students (5% of freshman per CDS 2018/19) and only applies to the freshman class. There is no mandated limit on split between in-state and OOS/int’l of transfer students.
Well, OP’s DD should be hearing from Emory soon and then , it’s game over for them. Fine school, not settling , a lot of kid’s first choice reach, and if it doesn’t work out, she has her safet which was one of my kids’ first choice school as a safety. In a good place.
The info I have for our area schools shows more accepts for MIT and a number of Ivies over UNC -CH, but it doesn’t mean that the latter is more selective here. Those who applied to say, MIT, are not necessarily the same kids who applied to UNC. In fact, none of the kids I know, and I know quite a few of them, over the years here, who applied to MIT also applied to UNC. One of mine contemplated applying to UNC , but had he done so, it would have been one of his high reaches, and he was not looking at HPYMC etal. They would have been lottery tickets for him.