<p>The truth about MIT and inbreeding lies somewhere in between those two views – Some departments want their undergrads back, others discourage the practice, and Biology used to downright prohibit it.</p>
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<p>Got into a huge argument with my brother-in-law. He has a small 40 people M/E/P engineering company in Houston. He said he had never heard of HMC ,didn’t know what to make of a general engineering degree and that low GPA’s would be an issue for him. He gets engineers from those engineering factories UT, TAMU mostly, with 3.8-4.0 GPA’s. He
starts them out at about 90K with benefits. Now I know Caltech, MIT, HMC students would not want to work at a place like this, but what gives? Is this just last century engineering with all the cool stuff being done at these premier schools? He said if you want to work in Texas and thats a Big if, then the UT brand for his type of engineering means more. My kid doesn’t want to work in that field. This whole thing is making me crazy</p>
<p>I think its a common issue with liberal art colleges. But I feel that a lot of Mudd students dont really do hardcore engineering as soon as they graduate, but instead want to learn more and advance their skills in Grad/Biz School. Normally, they end up in engineering companies, but at higher managerial positions. I am not sure if this is true (just saying from my common sense) but looking at the salary potentials, its seems to be so.</p>
<p>“I think its a common issue with liberal art colleges. But I feel that a lot of Mudd students dont really do hardcore engineering as soon as they graduate, but instead want to learn more and advance their skills in Grad/Biz School. Normally, they end up in engineering companies, but at higher managerial positions. I am not sure if this is true (just saying from my common sense) but looking at the salary potentials, its seems to be so.”</p>
<p>nah. mudders tend to stick to technical work after graduation. i made fairly good money out of school and i mostly do high performance mechanical design. you know, parts designed from nickel alloys and titanium alloys and are trimmed to hold safety margins of only 1.25. i’m certain that many other mudders to equally demanding technical work out of school. i don’t hear about too many people going into business per se.</p>
<p>“Got into a huge argument with my brother-in-law. He has a small 40 people M/E/P engineering company in Houston. He said he had never heard of HMC ,didn’t know what to make of a general engineering degree and that low GPA’s would be an issue for him. He gets engineers from those engineering factories UT, TAMU mostly, with 3.8-4.0 GPA’s. He
starts them out at about 90K with benefits. Now I know Caltech, MIT, HMC students would not want to work at a place like this, but what gives? Is this just last century engineering with all the cool stuff being done at these premier schools? He said if you want to work in Texas and thats a Big if, then the UT brand for his type of engineering means more. My kid doesn’t want to work in that field. This whole thing is making me crazy”</p>
<p>don’t worry about it. these types of companies are probably doing grunt engineering. i know for a fact that hmc is on the radar of people such as this: [url=<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1894410_1894289_1894278,00.html]Jeff”>http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1894410_1894289_1894278,00.html]Jeff</a> Bezos<a href=“and%20not%20merely%20for%20software%20engineering”>/url</a></p>
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I agree with your brother-in-law on this point. In areas with land-grant colleges and fields with established “Good Old Boys’ Networks” (I don’t use that term disparagingly here), a diploma from the local state school is often more valuable than one from anywhere else: It’s a known and trusted quantity. If your son did want to work in Texas in something related to your brother-in-law’s field, he’d probably do well to heed the advice and gratefully accept any networking assistance offered by the brother-in-law.</p>
<p>If his ambitions lie elsewhere, the advice is irrelevant – and the brother-in-law might be receptive to a “Thanks, but he’s more interested in (e.g.) coastal areas, and an HMC degree seems to be golden there.” Or just a pointer to the [Career</a> Paths Chosen by HMC Alumni](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/about/administrativeoffices/careerservices1/students1/majorsandcareers1/careerpathsofalumni.html]Career”>http://www.hmc.edu/about/administrativeoffices/careerservices1/students1/majorsandcareers1/careerpathsofalumni.html) and the [2009</a> PostGrad Survey (PDF)](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/files/careerservices/PostGrad09survey.pdf]2009”>http://www.hmc.edu/files/careerservices/PostGrad09survey.pdf).</p>
<p>Ultimately, though, convincing your brother-in-law is a lot less important than ensuring that your son (and family) makes an informed decision based on his goals. Most 17-year-olds don’t have concrete career plans grounded in reality; that’s ok and to be expected. But if you haven’t done this already, it might be worthwhile to sit down with him and explore some of the possibilities from each college’s Career Services site. Ask him where he sees himself in five or ten years. If he feels a strong pull toward a certain area, it wouldn’t hurt to find out what the employers consider to be golden tickets (hint: If the CEO’s alma mater is a state school…).</p>
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From what I’ve seen and heard, this doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Grad school, sure, many go on. Business school? I think an entrepreneurial Mudder is probably more likely to hook up with a CMCer if he’s looking to start a business.</p>
<p>Those are entry-level salaries you’re looking at in the annual surveys. They’re not high because the Mudders went into middle management; they’re high because the work is specialized and demanding, and perhaps in part because of the cost of living in their locations.</p>
<p>I will note that we met with an HMC alum last year whose career path took a rather unusual turn: He’s a patent attorney, which surprised me at first, but that line of work makes a lot of sense for someone with the Mudd core and the writing/presentation/communication skills Mudd emphasizes.</p>
<p>Thats the 24 dollar question: do you end up staying / working where you go to engineering school? I understand that many Rice engineers stay in Houston. [Center</a> For Student Professional Development - Rice University](<a href=“http://cspd.rice.edu/surveys]Center”>http://cspd.rice.edu/surveys). Do the Mudd / Cal Tech students mostly stay in California? Not that California isn’t great. I just would have thought that might correlate more with your grad school location. If a large % do stay, then the decision algorithms get much more complex. Anyway, thanks for all of the great insights.</p>
<p>My own data point plans to return to his home state after grad school, but given his interests I suspect he’ll spend a few years contributing heavily to CA’s tax base first. According to the Dean of Career Services at last year’s prefrosh orientation (in August), Mudd has good hiring relationships with many CA companies, and many Mudders do stay in CA. Not surprising given that the majority of Mudders come from CA to begin with, and surely some of the other Mudders consider CA weather a positive factor. Whether out-of-state kiddos typically put down roots in CA, I don’t really know.</p>
<p>geek_mom thanks, you have been very helpful on this forum. We plan to keep doing research. Everyone seems to have very strong opinions regarding engineering schools. This process has been much harder than I had imagined. Might be best to let him plan overnight visits at various schools, then punt.</p>
<p>Yes, yes, yes. Keep up the research and encourage him (gently;)) to think more about what’s important to him. To whatever extent you can, I would say let him visit the schools, hang with the students, and get a real feel for what each place is like. Anywhere he goes, Engineering will be a punishing curriculum. The feeling of fitting in and being “among his people” (wherever he finds them) will help to see him through the late nights and killer problem sets.</p>
<p>Is that comfort factor an absolute requirement – no – see rocketDA, who saw intrinsic value in the toughness of the Core, and who I believe would succeed anywhere on sheer force of will. I find his story inspiring and am personally grateful that he shared it last semester. But I do think it’s ideal to have both – the long-term reward of opportunities you know the education will give you, and the immediate reward of really enjoying the place you call home for four years.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son in his search and applications – and to you in getting through senior year intact! :D</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I’m not staying in California after graduation from Mudd.</p>
<p>That’s not worth much though, seeing as my international student visa requires me to get out within six months of finishing my education. I’m curious to see how my degree is going to stand up back home.</p>
<p>@brandon: same case here. But I thought for Internationals, the employer can do smth abt it. Did that happen in ur case?</p>
<p>The F-1 student visa comes with a year’s allotment of Optional Practical Training – if an employer wants to hire you, you can work in the US for the period of OPT without needing any special visa. However, you need to find an employer to hire you first… And that’s hard, I know a graduating senior on F-1 who says he might have to go back to his home country.</p>
<p>shucks…so I need to grab an employer using the Clinic Program or other random opportunities to cling on, is it? How about Grad School, like if I want to study further?</p>
<p>Just do it.</p>
<p>Haha… Isn’t it the same everywhere? If you want to survive in Singapore, you have to find a Singaporean employer. Going to graduate school just defers the process of job hunting until after graduate school. (you’ll be on F-1 visa while in grad school)</p>
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There are actually several things that can be done to legally get a job as an international, it seems to be one of the primary objectives of the I-Place on the Claremont Colleges to help students in this. I picked up a large booklet in first semester outlining all the different ways that the US government will allow employers to take international students. Among them indeed are things employers can do (like proving you are the only one who meets qualifications, etc.).</p>
<p>I, however, don’t really like the options presented for me to attempt employment in the US, and it’s going to be far, far easier for me to get a job in Canada. It’s a long way off though, this is just my current plan. If you really want to though, indianmonster, there’s a lot of people here willing to help you stick around and give you the information you need.</p>
<p>PS. Braden. Not Brandon. Futile as it has been my whole life, I still resiliently feel the need to make the correction.</p>
<p>New Data on best places for jobs. University of Texas might be a good Grad School.</p>
<p>[In</a> Pictures: Best Big Cities For Jobs - Best Big Cities For Jobs - Forbes.com](<a href=“In Pictures: Best Big Cities For Jobs”>In Pictures: Best Big Cities For Jobs)</p>
<p>[Los</a> Angeles Among Forbes’ ‘Top 10 U.S Cities In Freefall’](<a href=“Los Angeles Among Forbes' 'Top 10 U.S Cities In Freefall' | HuffPost Los Angeles”>Los Angeles Among Forbes' 'Top 10 U.S Cities In Freefall' | HuffPost Los Angeles)</p>
<p>@houstonmon2: from the article, it looks like much of job losses are related to the once lucrative construction industry in LA.</p>
<p>Also, Texas really seems to be outperforming the rest :)</p>