<p>If you were a college president or administrator, how would you reconcile state and college policies prohibiting alcohol for those under 21 with religious faiths that require / consume alcohol as part of their religious services? </p>
<p>By religious faiths, I mean those having an official chapter / center / affiliation with the college, and whose leaders have some sort of “official” relationship with the college, participate in interfaith initiatives as appropriate, and so forth. (I’m not referring to a religious center which is off campus and which has no affiliation with the college.)</p>
<p>Does it matter how much alcohol we are talking about in the given setting? Does it matter if members of other faith traditions are invited / participate?</p>
<p>Why are you asking? Just a interesting situation you thought of or has a specific situation presented itself on a campus?</p>
<p>PS - most Christian religions have a non-alcoholic communion alternative for their alcoholic members … which I would think could be used if a school raised a stink about alcohol being used during a service.</p>
<p>Well, I guess if my DS want to get drunk on Manachevitz, then that is his choice. However, I can’t imagine any one would want to. I see no problem with a college supporting a Hillel that serves wine on Friday night. It is usually a very small cup of very sweet wine. However, I guess they could purchase the more expensive and less sweet wines to get the kids to services and friday night dinner. :)</p>
<p>^Had some fun with this one when we answered “yes” to the “does the child drink alcohol” question when the kid was about 10. (We’re talking one ritual sip of wine at a religious function here.)</p>
<p>Nothing like an enthusiastic passover to make a young teen swear off alcohol!</p>
<p>A bigger issue for my children was the prohibition on candles - no shabbat candles, no chanukah menorahs. The electric ones just don’t cut it!</p>
<p>LOL! I wonder if those churches with dwindling attendance complaints have considered this as a way to raise awareness and increase attendance? I think I’d go just to watch!</p>
<p>If I were the college pres as pizzagirl asks, I know of no religion that requires alcohol.
Then I’d look into my states’ laws, but I suspect a religious man(woman) giving alcohol to underage person is just as illegal as a bartender doing the same.
So for me, unless I found my state permitted it, then I’d say no.
In fact, I’d prob recommend the service use a non-alcohol sub for all. rather than trying to identify who was permitted booze and who wasn’t.</p>
<p>It’s legal under Illinois law but not permitted under university policy. I don’t know the relevant history in the case which I think is the source of pizzasgirls question but it seems to me that there has to be be more to the story than just serving alcohol at Friday night services or similar events.</p>
<p>Younghoss, I am pretty sure the law doesn’t treat the chalice bearer in an Episcopal Eucharist the same way it treats a bartender who doesn’t card.</p>
<p>According to that, half of all states allow underage drinking for religious purposes. I’m honestly very surprised it’s that low. I figured it’d be much higher…</p>
<p>As for the other question, I’m not sure. I’m sure if it’s a religious university, they would allow it. Public universities would be very interesting though.</p>
<p>I am familiar with a specific recent case too (private nonreligious university) and I have read several articles in the student newspaper and local paper. In the case I read about, different students had varying accounts of what type and amount of alcohol had been served and in what contexts at a campus affiliated religious center. Also, many comments written in response to online articles in the school paper and local paper were anonymous so it is difficult to know what has actually been happening in this particular case. Also, don’t know if consumption of alcohol is REQUIRED for certain religious observances to be authentic or whether nonalcoholic beverage e.g. grape juice could substituted for wine. Is hard liquor ever necessary in these religious observances?</p>
<p>But it is ok with me that the university has a policy of no alcohol for students under 21 that includes ALL campus affiliated religious centers. Should be evenly enforced.</p>
<p>By some interpretations, the Jewish holiday of Purim requires not just a sip of wine, but full-on drunken revelry. And in theory, this would apply to all Jewish adults beginning at age 13. In practice though, even most orthodox communities discourage more than a few sips among the teens. And Jewish law also requires one to obey the law of the land.</p>
<p>In a state where ritual use of alcohol is permitted for young people in certain circumstances, but where a school wants to set a more stringent policy, it’s an interesting question. In states where underage use of alcohol is never permitted for ritual use, it’s cut and dried.</p>
<p>In most liturgical churches (Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran etc.) the elements used by Jesus must be present and used for there to be a “true” or “valid” Holy Communion service- yes this includes wine. </p>
<p>Now a few individual churches may make grape juice available or gluten-free wafers, for people who can not consume wine or bread, but partaking of both elements normal and expected. (Wine is sometimes not distributed at every Catholic mass, but is much more common than 20-30 years ago)</p>
<p>As an Episcopalian with Lutheran, Catholic and Presbyterian relatives (including living in states where there is not an “official exception” listed) I have never seen nor would I ever expect a bouncer at the communion rail. All members, and non-member guests in all of the churches except the Catholic, are welcome to have communion. No police officer or district attorney would even dream of trying such a case - in normal circumstances. Between the constitutional issues and the fact that most states explicitly allow it, they would want to risk the potential result.</p>
<p>That said, no denomination I know of has a liturgy for Holy Keggers or uses hard liquor in its sacraments. Based upon what I have deduced from some of the posts, a party took place at a campus ministry facility. I don’t think this can legitimately be called liturgical use. However, I don’t think any college should be telling a church it can’t follow its long standing rituals during its liturgy. If so, I would expect the church to leave the campus and invite students to one of the churches in town for services. The churches can’t be in the position having a college official overruling its bishop or pope</p>
<p>Jrpar is correct about the specific situation prompting this post.</p>
<p>The situation described is not a few sips of wine at a Communion or Passover.
It involves shots of whisky and vodka at a Chabad (Hasidic Jewish) house, offered by the rabbi.</p>
<p>^I personally find this to be a problem. Far be it for me to tell the Chabad rabbis how to celebrate for themselves, but I doubt that any reasonable civil authority would find it allowable for minors (for the purpose of alcohol consumption) to drink to intoxication, as a religious exemption. As in all legal cases, the results are dependent upon the facts - one shot ok? ten shots, not? I doubt it will be a trend for people to show up at Chabad just to do shots…</p>