<p>I was raised in a Christian house, and never saw my parents drink. They don’t drink. My father used to drink loads and loads when he was in college though. Anyways, I believe that my parents believe and trust me enough to stay sober. On weekends, when I’m out, alcohol is everywhere (I live in China, the drinking age is… I dont know. But if you have money to buy, any store will sell it to you)
They never really had the “talk” either. But they did mention that drinking itself isn’t bad; losing self control when drinking/drunk is bad–which I completely agree with. It would be sort of weird to even sip beer in front of them though.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>In America only. Everywhere else (except Muslim countries) I’m golden. More importantly, I was making a point about rights there; if you want to debate the idea that someone should have the right to impair themselves as long as they do not cause others harm, so be it, but I’m not here to defend myself to you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yep. America only. Isn’t it great? But seeing as you go to school here, you have to play by our rules. Not the rules of “everywhere else.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Find me the post on this thread where I said I didn’t play by your rules, and I’ll send you a cookie.</p>
<p>Again, though, whether I follow the rules or not, I’m not here to defend myself to you or anyone else, and don’t particularly care what you think about whether or not I drink. Period.</p>
<p>OOO - that cookie might just be stale 
Not a good idea to take cookie/candy from stangers…</p>
<p>Don’t really care what YOU do - doesn’t bother me one littie bit - just make sure you don’t hurt anyone else in the process tho - just that you seem to be trying to shove your opinions down lots of throats on this thread - everyone IS entitled to their own opinions - not just yours.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The problem with this belief is that, under the influence, people make bad choices (not limited to driving) that can harm other people. Once you’re under the influence and have uninhibited thought processes, you cannot guarantee people will not do things that they ordinarily would not do if sober, things that are dangerous to themselves and others.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No you don’t need to defend yourself to anyone, but to put out false information to people who read this board who are still forming opinions on the issue leads people to argue with your facts. What about the person who is so drunk they fall asleep with a lit cigarette, which subsequently causes a fire and it kills people? There are instances out there where the results of someone’s actions while drinking is harmful to someone other than themselves.</p>
<p>Haha. True. Especially strangers on the Internet. But I never ship stale cookies. ;)</p>
<p>The only reason I keep arguing is that I have yet to see someone make an argument against lowering the drinking age that is valid (i.e. not based on personal morals or opinions, or on myths or half-truths) except mini, whose public health argument is persuasive. I still disagree with it (and still haven’t fully credited it yet, as mini has yet to provide statistics to back up his assertions), but it is certainly an argument I respect.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are lots of things that cause people to have trouble controlling their urges. Some are even innate psychological traits. But we do not punish people for those things - if a schizophrenic wants to not take their medication (assuming they pose no imminent threat), they can. Society punishes the bad things people do; it does not and should not curtail things that could lead to them doing bad things - that would be an Orwellian reality indeed where we as a society don’t let people do anything which could potentially cause them to hurt each other.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Correct. But the actions that are harmful are distinct from the drinking that arguably caused them. I’m not saying nothing bad happens as a result of alcohol. But it is a horribly slippery slope to use that as reasoning to ban all alcohol.</p>
<p>Having 2 kids that I have had to worry about for a looooooooong time (in jest - only because I have been a parent for a loooooooong time LOL) - there is a part of me that does think the drinking age should be 18 in the US - as it was many a year ago. Reasons being - at 18 one can marry - one can vote - one can be independant - one can make legal decisions - one can fight for their country - and DIE as well - but can’t legally have a beer. That really makes little sense to me.</p>
<p>There is a part of me that feels also that having the legal age at 18 would put the ‘mystery’ of drinking on the shelf just a bit - since there really is little to prevent kids from 18-21 from obtaining alcohol anyways - no matter what laws are in place.</p>
<p>Then there is the part of me that feels that the deterrent of the age of 21 does/can prevent - or slow down - some folks from imbibing - tho looking at the college drinking issues - that is difficult to imagine.</p>
<p>I do/can take some sighs of relief tho that both of my kids have learned to respect alcohol - they both know well horrendous effect/results of over-drinking - and as adults - they it has to be left in their own device - to make their own decisions about it - but the do respect the possible horrible outcomes that can occur.</p>
<p>Keep my kiddos safe is my mantra :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone here is saying ban all alcohol. Some may not prefer it, and choose not to drink alcohol (frankly, I’m of the mind that I enjoy the taste, but don’t like the feeling). But by saying that nothing bad happens when one is impaired unless they’re behind the wheel of a car is also a slippery slope. If you had to go in and talk to a bunch of middle school kids about the responsibilities and consequences of alcohol, what would you say? Would you say as long as you’re by yourself and not driving, nothing bad will ever happen, so drink to your heart’s desire? Or would you say that drinking alcohol comes with a huge responsibility that includes the possibility that your actions while under the influence can also impact other people in very harmful ways.</p>
<p>The latter, every time. I respect alcohol’s potential to cause harm very, very much. My point is, I respect people’s freedom to choose for themselves and make their own decisions even more. So if I were talking to any group of people who had not consumed alcohol before, I would discuss the huge responsibility, discuss the huge potential for problems while impaired, and then once satisfied that they got the message, would trust them to make their own, responsible decisions.</p>
<p>1of42 - I think that’s what many on this board are getting at. Your admission that you realize alcohol has the potential to cause harm is a big step from saying unless you’re behind the wheel of a car, you can’t cause any harm.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would certainly hope that those ‘middle schoolers’ would not be left to that decision on their own…</p>
<p>JeepMOM: Did I say middle schoolers, or did I say “people who have not consumed alcohol before”. Read my post again.</p>
<p>teriwtt: Maybe I was being unclear; if so, I apologize. From my side of this, I’ve never ever thought or said that alcohol has no potential to cause harm by contributing to people doing stupid things, driving or not. I’ve always known that, and will always admit it if asked. Sorry I was unclear.</p>
<p>1of42 - you were responding to a situation/post that involved the mention of middle schoolers - and what your response would be - thus ‘middle schoolers’ - but again - ‘people’ - adults - should be able to make their own decisions - which they do - some follow the law - some don’t - their choice - and that is exactly what it comes down - choices that folks make for themselves - that may - or may not - involve others.</p>
<p>…that was a lot of hyphens. Since I can’t really figure out what you’re trying to say, all I’ll say is that my assertion is that since at 18 people are legally adults, it is absurd to withhold alcohol from them. If they are mature enough to throw their lives away in contractual obligations, take on debt, serve in the military, they are old enough to drink.</p>
<p>Geepers - I see an echo - lots of folks feel the same way - just a little bugger in that thinking tho - the law. OOO well…</p>
<p>Your post that I referred to was initially about ‘middle schools’ and how you would respond to them - not just ‘people’. Clear enough?</p>
<p>JeepMom, Apparently some people are just so mature and smart that they don’t need any laws to govern THEM. They can make decisions for themselves. And I’d love to see that argument given to the arresting officer:)</p>
<p>ROFL … OOPS KATHIEP hahahahahaa - yuppers :D</p>
<p>Isn’t 18 just wuundorfullll LOL</p>
<p>kathiep- How did you hear WildChild’s conversations with various cops? :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Great! Absolutely would love to hear that. Somehow I don’t think the suspect would win:)</p>