All Revved Up! REVD vs Non-HYP Ivies

<p>Four universities located in the South/Southwest now stand as legitimate rivals to the Non-HYP Ivies in the competition to attract the top strain of high school applicants. This thread is meant to inform on these four colleges and contrast/compare them with the group of non-HYP Ivies. </p>

<p>I have grouped the four universities-Rice, Emory, Vanderbilt and Duke-into the playful acronym of REVD. The REVD schools themselves are quite different---in fact, their southern location is probably their greatest similarity---and, at one or more of these colleges, there is something for every type of applicant. </p>

<p>So, get all revved up to compare the REVD schools with their better-known peers to the north. What you're likely to discover is that the REVD colleges offer similar academic strength along with unique institutional attributes that can make for a very distinctive and fulfilling undergraduate experience.</p>

<p>I will provide data on the four most important factors influencing the undergraduate academic experience, ie,</p>

<ol>
<li> Quality of student peers</li>
<li> Size of the classroom in which you learn</li>
<li> Teaching quality and proximity to professors</li>
<li> Institutional resources and a school's willingness to use them to support undergrads</li>
</ol>

<p>But first, I'll begin with a few basic bits of information:</p>

<p>LOCATION</p>

<p>Rice (Houston, TX)
Emory (Atlanta, GA)
Vanderbilt (Nashville, TN)
Duke (Durham, NC)</p>

<p>Brown (Providence, RI)
Columbia (New York, NY)
Cornell (Ithaca, NY)
Dartmouth (Hanover, NH)
U Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA)</p>

<h1>OF UNDERGRADUATES</h1>

<p>3319 Rice
5268 Emory
6794 Vanderbilt
6578 Duke</p>

<p>6244 Brown
5766 Columbia
13,931 Cornell
4196 Dartmouth
9768 U Penn</p>

<p>TUITION & FEES</p>

<p>$33,771 Rice
$39,158 Emory
$39,932 Vanderbilt
$40,243 Duke</p>

<p>$40,820 Brown
$41,316 Columbia
$39,666 Cornell
$40,607 Dartmouth
$40,514 U Penn</p>

<p>Hawkette, I'm surprised you didn't make the data a guessing game. We know you get "REVD" up over that...;)</p>

<p>
[quote]
proximity to professors

[/quote]

I wonder how this is measured? If you're in a 150' x 300' lecture hall or a 25' x 25' classroom? What happens if the student attends office hours?...it could conceivably be 10' x 10'...or even better if the student is romantically involved with a prof?...they could be swapping spit. How does that situation fall into your statistics? :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
they could be swapping spit

[/quote]
Since that's against the rules, it won't affect the statistics because nobody will publish it!</p>

<p>Rice was one of my favorites for my son, but he chose an even lesser-known school! :D</p>

<p>Some more basic data on the REVD schools and their non-HYP Ivy peers:</p>

<pre><code> Male , Fem , School

                48% ,   52% ,   Brown
                51% ,   49% ,   Columbia
                50% ,   50% ,   Cornell
                49% ,   51% ,   Dartmouth
                49% ,   51% ,   U Penn

                52% ,   48% ,   Rice
                na  ,   na  ,   Emory
                49% ,   51% ,   Vanderbilt
                49% ,   51% ,   Duke


                        OOS ,   School

                        86% ,   Brown
                        75% ,   Columbia
                        69% ,   Cornell
                        98% ,   Dartmouth
                        83% ,   U Penn

                        46% ,   Rice
                        73% ,   Emory
                        84% ,   Vanderbilt
                        85% ,   Duke

</code></pre>

<p>Black , Asian , Hispanic , White/NA , Intl , School</p>

<p>5% , 15% , 10% , 59% , 10% , Brown
13% , 17% , 16% , 43% , 11% , Columbia
7% , 17% , 8% , 59% , 10% , Cornell
9% , 16% , 9% , 54% , 6% , Dartmouth
8% , 20% , 7% , 54% , 11% , U Penn</p>

<p>7% , 20% , 12% , 48% , 12% , Rice
10% , 24% , 4% , 50% , 11% , Emory
8% , 9% , 8% , 69% , 5% , Vanderbilt
10% , 18% , 7% , 57% , 7% , Duke</p>

<p>
[quote]
UCHChemEGrad, I must say you have some issues. you're probably one of those antisocial people who are ugly and got rejected by elite schools who are jealous that some people at the schools they got rejected at are smarter and better-looking and are just better overall human beings.

[/quote]

First of all, it's UC*B*ChemEGrad. Sure, I think I have some issues. I'm sorta antisocial, after all I am an engineer. I don't think I'm that bad looking...my wife would agree. I did not get rejected by "elite" schools unless you consider UCLA and UCSD elite...so, no, I don't have a reason to be jealous. </p>

<p>Thanks for playing though.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
TUITION & FEES</p>

<p>$33,771 Rice
$39,158 Emory
$39,932 Vanderbilt
$40,243 Duke</p>

<p>$40,820 Brown
$41,316 Columbia
$39,666 Cornell
$40,607 Dartmouth
$40,514 U Penn

[/Quote]

Do you plan on including each school's respective FA policies and/or budget allotted towards undergraduates?</p>

<p>I have several data points on finances, including endowment, per capita endowment, comparison of scholarship/grants vs loans, debt at graduation, % of students receiving financial aid, avg size of their package, size of package relative to the undergrad price tag and maybe more.</p>

<p>Penn
Columbia
....
Dartmouth
Brown
Duke
....
Cornell
....
Emory
Rice
Vanderbilt</p>

<p>I hope that helps hawkette.</p>

<p>^Vanderbilt gives out great financial aid relative to these other schools.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
I have several data points on finances, including endowment, per capita endowment, comparison of scholarship/grants vs loans, debt at graduation, % of students receiving financial aid, avg size of their package, size of package relative to the undergrad price tag and maybe more.

[/Quote]

Sounds good. This thread should be pretty helpful.</p>

<p>Finances don't usually come up first, but since Jersey asked for that, here are some comparisons:</p>

<p>% of Financial Aid in the form or Scholarships/Grants/% in Loans, College</p>

<p>90%/10%, Rice
79%/21%, Emory
92%/8%, Vanderbilt
na/na, Duke</p>

<p>84%/16%, Brown
91%/9%, Columbia
86%/14%, Cornell
85%/15%, Dartmouth
77%/23%, U Penn</p>

<p>For average indebtedness at graduation of those who borrowed at any time through any loan programs (institutional, state, Federal Perkins, Federal Stafford Subsidized and Unsubsidized, private loans that were certified by your institution, etc.; exclude parent loans), here is how they compare: </p>

<p>$18,166 Rice
$25,865 Emory
$19,563 Vanderbilt
na Duke</p>

<p>$21,858 Brown
na Columbia
$21,549 Cornell
$19,051 Dartmouth
$17,787 U Penn</p>

<p>PA Bank,
Would you care to explain how you arrived at your "ranking?"</p>

<p>Yield, acceptance rate, etc.</p>

<p>The tuition of a university and its aid in no way tells anything about quality of education. It would be helpful when comparing the value of an education, but not the quality</p>

<p>PABank, I wholeheartedly agree with those rankings. The only thing that I would possibly change would be putting Penn Wharton in a group above and putting Cornell Engineering in the same group as Penn and Columbia.</p>

<p>Where do you note quality of student peers, and how do you determine?</p>

<p>What about the most important factor--job placement of graduates? Are their students as heavily recruited as the Ivies? Does their diploma open doors like the Ivies? Can these things be measured anyway?</p>

<p>PA,
I'm not contending that the costs connote quality. I'm just providing information on that for those for whom it is a consideration.</p>

<p>As for your "ranking" above and your statements on yield & acceptance rate, is that your methodology for deciding which colleges provide a quality undergraduate education? I hope that you've got more than that to hang your hat on....btw, I will be presenting that information in later posts.</p>

<p>I'll be posting lots of data and comparisons, but for the record, I don't believe that there are substantive differences between any of these nine schools. Yes, certain programs at this or that school might be considered stronger, but the student quality going in and coming out seems awfully close to me. </p>

<p>And as the numbers will show, the educational environments that the students are learning in at at all of these schools are among the nation's finest. </p>

<p>Try to keep an open mind. And if you have useful data to present as well, then please do so.</p>

<p>"% of Financial Aid in the form or Scholarships/Grants/"</p>

<p>What about financial Aid in the form of subsidized tuition for NY State residents, to the tune of $10,000 per year? 20% of Cornell's students receive this financial aid.</p>

<p>Unless you are proposing to do your analysis by individual colleges of multi-college universities, which would be the only useful way that it means anything. In which case about 55% of Cornell's contract college students receive this subsidy, students at the endowed college students don't.</p>

<p>"I have several data points on finances, including endowment, per capita endowment, .."</p>

<p>Do you also have, and will include, data on annual appropriations received from their states, such as Cornell receives, and the equivalent size endowment increment that would be necessary for a school which did not receive such appropriations to create this amount of additional funding?</p>

<p>"Quality of student peers"
"peers" are determined by college at multicollege universities with separate admissions, if you are not breaking the data out by college it is meaningless and misleading, to anyone applying to a particular college at a given university. But perhaps you were planning to break it out.</p>

<p>Also, I would expect "basic data" would include relative regional representation,
% of undergrads from: Texas, Tenessee, North Carolina,
South generally(southeast + southwest+texas),
Northeast, West, midwest, international
etc.</p>

<p>Not sure why you would exclude schools like Northwestern & U chicago from this.</p>

<p>Are you 100% sold on this 'REVD' acronym? Like, as you try to convince people of your point, is that what you're going to keep referring to them as? REVD?</p>

<p>Just wondering.</p>

<p>I prefer RED-V as in Red Neck league with a V-neck! Because these are really prestigious southern Red-V neck universities. Yeehaww!!!</p>

<p>Shouldn't WashU be included with Emory, Vanderbilt, Rice, and Duke?</p>