<p>I cannot imagine why anyone would choose Vandy or Emory over Cornell unless it was for the weather or the money. But even if it were for the money, if it was for financial aid, wouldn’t Cornell match it?</p>
<p>Aren’t weather and money important factors?</p>
<p>And comparing these schools to Cornell alone is pointless. Emory and Vandy do not hold a candle to the rest of the ivy league.</p>
<p>^More importantly, if the figures collegehelp is citing is correct, then the study is simply a failure.</p>
<p>This thread should be changed to REV vs Cornell and Duke vs NonHYP ivies.</p>
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</p>
<p>Well, that’s only important if your idea of decision-making is “follow the crowd and if they jump off a bridge, do the same.” If I personally prefer the atmosphere of College A over College B, then what possible difference does it make whether 25% or 75% of A/B cross-admits prefer B? </p>
<p>The sophisticated, self-confident approach is: I personally prefer A over B. More people prefer B over A? Great for them - I hope they enjoy B - I’m off to A.</p>
<p>The insecure CC approach: Which is better, A or B? More people prefer B? Oh, well, then, I do too, because I form opinions based on what others think, not on assessing my own preferences.</p>
<p>Let’s move on to measurements of student quality. </p>
<p>Some readers (like Buddy) arrive at this thread with preconceived notions and are probably certain that some student bodies are stronger than others. Look at the data below and make your own judgment.</p>
<p>CR 25 - CR 75 , College</p>
<p>640 - 750 , Rice
640 - 730 , Emory
660 - 750 , Vanderbilt
660 - 750 , Duke</p>
<p>650 - 760 , Brown
680 - 770 , Columbia
630 - 730 , Cornell
660 - 770 , Dartmouth
660 - 750 , U Penn</p>
<p>Math 25 - Math 75 , College</p>
<p>680 - 780 , Rice
660 - 750 , Emory
690 - 770 , Vanderbilt
680 - 780 , Duke</p>
<p>670 - 780 , Brown
690 - 780 , Columbia
660 - 770 , Cornell
680 - 780 , Dartmouth
690 - 780 , U Penn</p>
<p>W 25 - W 75 , College</p>
<p>650 - 740 , Rice
650 - 740 , Emory
660 - 750 , Vanderbilt
660 - 760 , Duke</p>
<p>660 - 770 , Brown
680 - 770 , Columbia
na - na , Cornell
670 - 780 , Dartmouth
670 - 760 , U Penn</p>
<p>
</a></p>
<p>Clearly, you did not understand that study at all and alam1 is correct that saying 100% of people choose Cornell over Emory is a completely absurd statement. That chart is NOT what percentage of students choose one institution over another (Table 4 on page 29). Using your same method, the table also says that 96% of students choose Harvard over Yale and 100% choose Harvard over Stanford! haha, are you kidding? Obviously, you didn’t read what the table represents. Here is it is though for everybody:</p>
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</p>
<p>In other words, the authors are 82% confident that Cornell is preferred (by 50.000001% or greater of the population) over Rice. NOT that 82% of people prefer Cornell over Rice.</p>
<p>Looked at even another way, this study shows that the gap between Harvard and Yale/Stanford is MUCH larger than the any potential gap between Cornell and Rice/Duke. Frankly, I think Harvard, Yale, and Stanford are peers; the study simply shows Harvard is preferred over the latter two with GREAT confidence (remember, confidence that 50.00001% or more of the population prefers Harvard).</p>
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</p>
<p>You have a limited imagination, then.
Perhaps you come from a world where everyone oohs and aahs over Ivies and everything else is a step below. But that’s a rather limited, insular, unsophisticated world of prestige-seeking wannabes. There’s a whole world out there of people who are more sophisticated than that, who recognize that there are plenty of great opportunities and great schools and that no 8 schools have the monopoly. Perhaps you’ll get into that world one day.</p>
<p>Buddy McAwesome, all you know is your stereotypical little northeast upper middle class suburban life. You really have no idea that there are other parts of the country and other people who most certainly would prefer Vandy over Cornell (just to pick on those).</p>
<p>The Revealed Preference Study should not be cited. for practically anything. IMO.
The statistics are not actual cross-admits, they are theoretical extrapolations, which do not adequantely account for the fact that the sample of applicants to a particular college is a biased sample of the total applicant pool. Even actual cross admit data proves little, since the most overt expression of dispreference for a particular shool is to not apply there at all, and the preferences of non-applicants are not captured.</p>
<p>There are lots of reasons someone might choose to apply to a school or not, or choose one over another. Which may or may not apply to you.</p>
<p>^ Not to mention that the survey data on which the Revealed Preference Study was based is now more than 10 years old.</p>
<p>If you take out the state school parts of Cornell, it would exceed Vandy in every academic measure.</p>
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<p>If you take out the worst 50% of students at Vanderbilt, it would be stronger than Cornell. You can’t change a school…it is what it is…</p>
<p>Re #62 & 63, the admissions rate for Cornell’s Arts & Sciences college was 18.4% in '08, 16.7 % in 2009. I recall someone posting 14% for 2010 but have not seen confirmation.</p>
<p>You cannot apply to cornell. You apply to particular colleges there. Each college there is what it is, and they are all different.</p>
<p>Unless you are suggesting that most people applying to Rice would be as likely to apply to Cornell’s Hotel Administration college in the alternative as to its Arts & sciences college. Whereas Rice has no such college or program of studies in Hotel administration at all…</p>
<p>Clearly the colleges at Cornell that are most relevant when comparing vs. these other colleges are its colleges of engineering and CAS, because those are the colleges most applicants to these other universities would be applying to in the alternative. For the most part.</p>
<p>It would of course be better to look at each college individually, at each university. If it has separate admissions and programs of study.</p>
<p>“You have a limited imagination, then.
Perhaps you come from a world where everyone oohs and aahs over Ivies and everything else is a step below. But that’s a rather limited, insular, unsophisticated world of prestige-seeking wannabes. There’s a whole world out there of people who are more sophisticated than that, who recognize that there are plenty of great opportunities and great schools and that no 8 schools have the monopoly. Perhaps you’ll get into that world one day.”</p>
<p>^^ Well, said Pizzagirl! I second that. There are many people who turned down HYP ivies (not just the lower ivies) for schools like Rice, Emory, WashU, Duke, and etc. Some did that because of money, but others did it because they visited and fell in love with the schools.</p>
<p>Here is how the SAT data works on the 1600 scale and the 2400 scale:</p>
<p>SAT 25 - SAT 75 , College</p>
<p>1320 - 1530 , Rice
1300 - 1480 , Emory
1350 - 1520 , Vanderbilt
1340 - 1530 , Duke</p>
<p>1320 - 1540 , Brown
1370 - 1550 , Columbia
1290 - 1500 , Cornell
1340 - 1550 , Dartmouth
1350 - 1530 , U Penn</p>
<p>SAT 25 - SAT 75 , College</p>
<p>1970 - 2270 , Rice
1950 - 2220 , Emory
2010 - 2270 , Vanderbilt
2000 - 2290 , Duke</p>
<p>1980 - 2310 , Brown
2050 - 2320 , Columbia
na - na , Cornell
2010 - 2330 , Dartmouth
2020 - 2290 , U Penn</p>
<p>The SATs for Cornell Engineering and Arts and Sciences are something like 1330-1520. By the way, although the specialty schools at Cornell (such as Hotel, Agriculture, Industrial and Labor Relations) drag down the overall SATs a bit, most are nevertheless considered the best in the world in their specialty.</p>
<p>From the authors of the Revealed Preference Study:</p>
<p>Our method produces a ranking that would be very difficult for a college to manipulate. In
contrast, colleges can easily manipulate the matriculation rate and the admission rate, which
are the crude proxies commonly used to measure colleges’ desirability. Because there is a
strong demand for measures of colleges’ desirability, colleges are forced to advertise their
matriculation and admissions rates. Moreover, college guides like U.S. News are forced to give
substantial weight to the matriculation and admissions rates. These crude proxies are not only
misleading; they induce colleges to engage in distorted conduct that decreases the colleges’ real
selectivity while increasing the colleges’ apparent desirability. So long as colleges are judged
based on their crude admissions and matriculation rates, they are unlikely to eliminate
strategic admissions or roll back early decision programs, which are the key methods of
manipulating the proxies. Many college administrators correctly perceive that they are in a
bad equilibrium. Yet, so long as the crude proxies are used, the bad equilibrium is likely to
persist. If our ranking method were used, the pressure on colleges to practice strategic
admissions would be relieved.</p>
<p>"^^ Well, said Pizzagirl! I second that. There are many people who turned down HYP ivies (not just the lower ivies) for schools like Rice, Emory, WashU, Duke, and etc. Some did that because of money, but others did it because they visited and fell in love with the schools. "</p>
<p>…and a plethora of other top publics and LACs…</p>