<p>Cardinal: I think in your example, if the TA admitted to the sex, he would lose his job. Most colleges prohibit sexual relations between an instructor and a student.</p>
<p>He’s a sophomore TA. Are you saying that his entire punishment should be that he is not allowed to TA any more classes? Or let’s say he’s not a TA, but a fellow student in the chemistry class who I thought was particularly good at chemistry and could explain the problem set to me.</p>
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<p>No one answered this before, so I am asking with more clarifications and multiple choice options this time:</p>
<p>Boy and girl has sex. Case 1) Both are equally drunk. Case 2) The girl is sober. The acts finishes without any pushbacks, and no one says no. But no explicit verbal yes is obtained by either party. CA rules apply when it comes to college sex.</p>
<p>Was there evidence of rape? Who raped whom?</p>
<p>Answer Choices:</p>
<p>1) There is no evidence of rape in either case
2) There is no evidence of rape in Case 1, but the girl raped the boy in Case 2
3) The boy raped the girl in both cases as the girl didn’t say Yes
4) This is precisely what a rape apologist would ask for, and we do not want to focus on this
5) Your response here …</p>
<p>JHS, if we accept the California state definition of consent, the first guy signaled his consent by sticking his **** in the other guy’s butt. </p>
<p>“she has been against the Greek system since she arrived”</p>
<p>In other breaking news, the Pope has been revealed as a Catholic. </p>
<p>If you are smart enough to get hired as a university president, wouldn’t you also be against the greek system? We all would. It is a liability and a PITA for any university administration. There’s much easier ways to organize student charity fund-raisers. </p>
<p>If you weren’t able to ban them, you’d certainly take every available opportunity to regulate them and reign them in further.</p>
<p>And since the frats (not just at UVA) have some serious brand/image problems, they’d be smart to use this opportunity as well.</p>
<p>At this point, we literally have no idea what is up with Jackie. She could be a pathological liar. She could be seriously mentally ill. She could be a tramautized victim. No way to tell those apart at present. </p>
<p>Cardinal: I was thinking of a graduate student TA. </p>
<p>Look its not fair but women have to scream, run, fight, hit back, kick em in the nuts or the eyes. </p>
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<p>That’s too late already. If she is out of the drinking and hooking up scene, then the odds that she would even need to use such tactics are very very low. The BoJ has whole reams and reams of stats which show the risk factors, and they are drugs/alcohol, time of day, company (party of strangers or just friends), stranger sex … but since that’s blaming the victim these are hidden from the girls. </p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder if BoJ is on the take from the boys who DO want to rape, and if that’s why they hide the risk factors.</p>
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<p>California does not require a VERBAL yes. To answer the question, we have to know whether both parties showed an “affirmative, conscious and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity.” They both have to have evinced “positive cooperation in act or attitude.” Nothing in the statute says anything about communicating their intent in words. </p>
<p>Cardinal, who is watching these people? How would we ever know any of that? Not that I really want to know but this is all getting a tad creepy.</p>
<p>It still doesn’t make it right northwesty, she can work to change them all she wants, in fact I agree some of their practices should be changed. BUT the continued suspension is unfair given that 99.9% of the young adults (and possibly 100%) did nothing wrong.</p>
<p>Yes, and way off the subject of the Rolling Story story at UVa.</p>
<p>Drunk woman, drunk man.</p>
<p>Case 1: He is lying there in an alcoholic haze, doing nothing. She drunkenly staggers over, pulls down his pants and puts his **** in her mouth. He does nothing. </p>
<p>Case 2: She is lying there in an alcoholic haze, doing nothing. He drunkenly staggers over and puts his *** in her mouth, or he pulls up her dress and puts his **** in her ****.</p>
<p>Case 3: They are both very drunk, but both capable of voluntary action, however uncoordinated and clumsy. They somehow manage to remove enough clothing off each other, and they have sex. Or they both participate in oral sex of one on the other. Both are participating in their drunk, uncoordinated, incoherent way.</p>
<p>Case 1: Rape.</p>
<p>Case 2: Rape.</p>
<p>Case 3: Drunken sex.</p>
<p>CF what would you like done in your TA example? I would like to see the young girl had try to fight the guy off maybe there would have been something to help the police arrest and convict this guy.</p>
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<p>This is a fine point to raise, as there indeed are many, many bad cops. However, we are talking of the college systems. As I see it, the new systems used by colleges are to convict the accused based simply on the accusation. A million bad cops can’t counter such a gross violation of the 14th Ammendment. You don’t punish an innocent kid because some other innocent kid couldn’t get a cop to investigate her case.</p>
<p>However, if the rape victim advocates want to go after cops, I would open my wallet immediately and give my time too. As I said before, I am not a huge fan of cops. </p>
<p>The frats should have been suspended. The frats engage in illegal activites so a time out is not some extreme punishment anyway. Plus the story isn’t finished.</p>
<p>On another note…from momofJandL</p>
<p><a href=“For rape victims, hurt and anger in dealing with New Orleans police”>http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/11/new_orleans_police_ignore_sex.html</a></p>
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<p>In my hypothetical with my sophomore TA or fellow chemistry student, I tried those things, but I was a tiny little woman, and he was a collegiate wrestler. He overpowered my resistance. Or he threatened more violence if I kept fighting. In any case, I didn’t end up with significant injuries.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang, I thought we all agreed that incapacitated consent is not consent. </p>
<p>The fact (sort of the fact) is that most of us DO view rape as a gendered crime, just as SoWhat says. There is an active party and a passive party, rapist and victim, and the rapist is male (although maybe, once in a blue moon, the role could be played by a female) and the victim is female (regardless of her sex). And that doesn’t mesh well at all with the lovely idea that the law is gender-neutral and that intoxication makes consent impossible.</p>
<p>Rape is also somewhat unique in criminal law, in that there really isn’t any mens rea – guilty intent – required of the perpetrator, and the only relevant mental state is that of the victim. If I intend to kill you or to hurt you, and I do, and you consent, I have still committed murder. If I intend to have sex with you, and I do, and you consent, that’s absolutely fine, but if you don’t consent it’s rape. What’s more, it’s pretty clear that even if I don’t intend to have sex with you, but I do anyway, and you don’t consent, it’s rape. But in that case, without assigning gender roles, I can’t tell which party is which.</p>
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<p>If there is clear and convincing evidence, why didn’t the cops bring a case, and if they did, why was the guy acquitted? Especially if the case went to court and the guy was acquitted, that’s proof positive that there was NOT a clear and convincing evidence.</p>
<p>Please understand that truth is different from evidence.</p>
<p>“It still doesn’t make it right northwesty, she can work to change them all she wants, in fact I agree some of their practices should be changed. BUT the continued suspension is unfair given that 99.9% of the young adults (and possibly 100%) did nothing wrong.” </p>
<p>I could not care less. Definition of a first world problem. Probably a good learning experience for the frat bros. Life isn’t fair; people get stereotyped; one alleged bad apple can, in fact, sometimes spoil the whole bunch. </p>
<p>Deal with it.</p>
<p>Okay, CF so I ask again, what do you want to happen in this situation. I agree it isn’t great but what do you want to do about it, just convict the guy without evidence. Although I would hope the cops would consider other information in their investigation like did the two flirt, or have a preexisting relationship etc. Did the girl have a boyfriend thereby casting doubt on the TAs story etc.</p>
<p>And </p>
<p>“The frats should have been suspended. The frats engage in illegal activites so a time out is not some extreme punishment anyway. Plus the story isn’t finished.”</p>
<p>What illegal activities do the frats engage in? Besides the alcohol argument…</p>