<p>Oh, sorry. I was referring to the I in 5 college women will be raped number which is highly exaggerated purposefully by the victim advocacy groups and includes misconduct and assault which are not exactly rape. The advocates also advocate for more victims by encouraging reporting of pretty much everything and were supposed to be the focus of the RS article until the fake story got too good and took center stage and promptly collapsed. Now, they are very upset. But, these groups are actively working to bump up the number of reports and that’s not at all controversial and they will tell you that themselves. Also, they very strongly do not want mandated reporting to law enforcement precisely because it’s clear less women will come forward under those circumstances. It’s not about rape prevention or justice, it’s about social activism as a profession and they over-reached badly.</p>
<p>" The thesis focuses on the fundamental conflict between due process and Title IX, a comprehensive federal law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in any federally funded education program or activity, with an analysis of how to make a sexual misconduct policy as strong as possible to encourage the highest number of reports based on the conflict."</p>
<p>actually, PG the report is that the OSU student did not re-enroll, not that he was expelled</p>
<p>Jonri: I understand your points, but you seem to have little concern about whether or not the accused are actually guilty. What if the handyman or janitor or neighbor is not actually guilty? Where is your boundary of probably did it vs might not have? Is it really OK with you to take away someone’s livelihood on an accusation?</p>
<p>It seems that when a man is expelled for sexual abuse, he has a very hard time getting accepted at another college, especially a selective one. To me, that seems to require a pretty high burden of proof. </p>
<p>CF: agree the Occidental case is not clear, but did not rise to the level where the boy should have been expelled. Even in the disputed Harvard guidance, it states “so impaired or incapacitated as to be incapable of requesting or inviting the conduct, conduct of a sexual nature is deemed unwelcome,” In this case, the girl was inviting the conduct by going to the boy’s room and actively participating. Prior to that, some of the witnesses said she was coming on to the boy. I think that is very different than the relatively sober boy leading the very inebriated girl up to his room and not letting her leave. I would be more inclined to agree with the decision if the boy had gone after the girl or showed up in her room. </p>
<p>Would the girl have been better off by taking responsibility for making a terrible decision and moving on from there, with counseling rather than putting all the blame on the boy? I am not sure, just wondering. Also wonder if she has gotten negative feedback on campus which led her to withdraw.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, talking here about this one case. If a girl is very impaired, consent can’t be given and sexual assault has occurred. It is murkier, however, if the girl is sloppy drunk and actively inviting the attention and the sexual activity. Some girls choose to behave that way… As discussed many pages back, where is the durnk/too drunk line (we all know the extremes of sober and too drunk, it is the boundary that is tough to find). </p>
<p>You may feel misconduct and assault are not exactly rape. But rape falls under assault (or exploitation or violence or any number of synonyms,) which falls under misconduct. Not all misconduct is assault and not all assault is rape.</p>
<p>So if 1 in 5 is off, these girls are being actively encouraged to report the slightest little offense and then people start calling it rape. ?? Or?</p>
<p>Marie, what’s the gist? You think it’s a plot? You think that because Renda wants more victims to feel comfortable reporting it’s some plot to overreport? </p>
<p>You can’t fathom that many women don’t report and need a climate in which they can come forward?</p>
<p>As I said, I’d probably decide the Occidental case the other way. But I don’t think the case is so clear that it’s an obvious miscarriage of justice. “Jane Doe” was extremely drunk. She was by all accounts very impaired. Impaired enough to be incapacitated? I’d say no, but it’s a close judgement.</p>
<p>Wherever the boundary is drawn, there will always be cases that are close to the boundary, and that are difficult to decide. The Occidental case is one such.</p>
<p>No, not exactly a plot but she admits that it’s organized effort to inflate the statistics and she’s not the only one, by far. It’s an industry. Of course, I realize many women don’t report many things and I completely understand that and think it should be totally their choice. However, I’m not quite clear on why for the four years they are in college we need another elaborate system and must count everything while not wanting a thorough investigation. Interesting that the case she was citing most often was the fake one. But, question-asking is not the role of an advocate. It makes me uncomfortable because I care about the truth a lot. And. I don’t care much for a college panel deciding how drunk someone was last month. It makes no sense.</p>
<p>On another note you would have posters on here screaming sexual harassment if it were boys making those phone calls to girls requesting sex. If the girls are going to behave this way and many do, the blame cannot rest on the boy who was not the predator.</p>
<p>“Inflate” is a loaded word. Suggesting its an industry is offensive and-again- tries to ask what’s the big deal about sexual assault. Think about it.</p>
<p>I just wonder if you’re pulling our legs. We’ve been over why the college must react and more of what you- again- bring up. If you want to act like sexual assault is overblown, go for it. But own it. </p>
<p>True enough. We’ve been round and round about all of it here. No-one has switched positions. Also, you’re reading things into my posts that I did not say and I have no idea how inflate and industry are offensive words. But, okay.</p>
<p>My interest in this thread was entirely the RS UVA story which I thought after reading two paragraphs was headed for trouble. However, I could not have predicted this much trouble. I just figured it was a grossly exaggerated partially fictional narrative put forth by an overly enthusiastic agenda-driven writer who expected the world to buy into her nonsensical stereotypes. They didn’t and it’s getting worse every day. And, the whole nevermind there’s still a problem thing is just not selling.</p>
<p>If Jackie really did have oral sex with five men as part of a hazing ritual, then can the pledges claim that they were raped by Jackie? And/or by the fraternity?</p>
<p>CF: Absolutely there will be cases that could go either way. If he had pursued her, I would completely agree. And of course young women that drink too much should be protected from men taking advantage of them or pressuring them. But some girls in some situations make these decisions and are OK with it. It gets very fuzzy when yes (including yes I will come find you) does not mean yes.</p>
<p>I wonder if Occidental really understood the impact an expulsion would have on the male student. If what the victim said in the link you had was substantially true about the professor and this was the general belief among faculty and administrator at the school, then the power of faulty science is clear. Would they have decided the case the way they did if they did not believe that 90% of rapists were serial offenders and thus this guy must be one too? Or did they realize that he would not be able to get into another college (colleges always ask about where else you attended). </p>
<p>The “All three” being the original “Andy, Cindy and Randall” who are now identified as Alex Stock, 20, Kathryn Hendley, 20, and Ryan Duffin, 20. </p>
<p>Who is ‘she’? Also, could you provide a link to a quote where they say they want to drive up statistics, please? I would like to see the context. </p>
<p>You have to begrudging admit it’s a tad ironic that there is all this emphasis on protecting women and keeping them safe from big bad man while the same women are reaping the benefits of previous generations pushing for social and monetary equality. I’ve never been in favor of considering women a class that needs “special protections.” I’m all about putting a sexual assaulter behind bars, but absolutely don’t consider it assault if two people drink themselves silly and have sex and I have to question why some of these cases, where there is no evidence of actual assault, it takes months and years for women to “decide” they were somehow forced to have sex. Those cases absolutely could benefit from counseling and mediation for both parties involved. The one in five claim will go down in flames in the next couple years and I would bet money on that. My guess is the actual statistics will be far closer to what is found in society in general. Most likely we’ll be talking about this hysteria period in media history for years to come.</p>
<p>@momofthreeboys - social and monetary equality are one thing but women are never going to be able to level the playing field when is comes to physical strength. The ability of a man to overpower a woman by his sheer size and strength is something we will never be able to change. Rape is the violent overpowering of a woman by a man. I really don’t understand your point there.</p>
<p>Cases involving 2 very drunk people are murky at best and are very difficult to wade through. But if colleges are not willing to do a better job of monitoring the consumption of alcohol by underage students, then they are going to continue to find themselves in the murky waters of “he said she said” and having to make very difficult decisions that have lasting impacts on these kids lives. Personally, I feel cracking down on the underage drinking would reduce the problem substantially. Whether we want to believe it or not, many 18 year olds going off to college are not as mature as we give them credit for. </p>
<p>Embedded in this is a sentence that chills my heart:
So people can shut their minds off to what a few of might be saying but ask yourself if you really, really want to be a protected class, do you really want to admit that men are the “guardians of female well-being.” I’m no rape apologist, I’m not into slut shamming, I just think people as individuals need to take deep look into themselves before they lash out and label someone with a horrific label, or sit on a honor tribunal knowing they can irrevocably change someone’s life, or start typing on a keyboard as a blogger. Go in with eyes wide open…something the RS journalist should probably have done as – Trust but verify. </p>
<p>This might be bad reporting. Heck we’ve seen this before.</p>
<p>But it is hardly “hysterical” for women, fathers, brothers, friends and partners to be concerned with the cover ups of rapes on college campuses.</p>
<p>It is easy to forget how recently colleges were actually punishing, or attempting to punish, women for even reporting rapes and not remaining silent. In fact, this practice, is actually what brought about many of the investigations into the state of title nine protections on college campuses.</p>
<p>Furthermore, this argument you like to put forward about how women being protected from rape somehow creates a “protected” class is as silly as saying that police protecting property owners from thieves and burglars creates a protected class. It sounds awesome, which is why you use it, but dig deeper and it’s very easy to see the manipulation in it.</p>
<p>^I think there have been coverups, but I think a big part of this has just been gross incompetence on the part of the administrators and professors making these decisions. Decisions have been erratic in both directions, and I’ve seen this with other crises as well. I do not have any confidence in them making wise decisions going forward, and I’m not sure why anyone else does either. </p>
<p>The one thing they are good at is securing grant money. If you tie federal funding to expulsions, you can be assured that these rates will rapidly elevate. But it won’t be because they are handling these cases fairly. </p>
<p>It’s striking to me that there’s so much focus on “see? The whole story is false because the 3 friends actually did try to convince her to call police” while COMPLETELY missing the bigger point, that her friends corroborated that something terrible happened that night that shook her to her core. </p>
<p>It’s about as stupid as arguing over whether the weather was clear or rainy that night. </p>