<p>I agree @Marie1234 you are obsessed with the UVA case. But what I object to is that you are using it as a hammer in an attempt to crush the credibility of other sexual assault victims, implying that the vast majority of cases are overblown or even made up. I detect some sort of “glee” in your endless negative depictions of Jackie. Why not aim your cannon at Erdley who really should be taking the heat here. IIRC, JAckie did not want this story published. And how will you feel if it turns out Jackie was in fact a victim of sexual abuse???</p>
<p>I’m going with what the folks at RAINN say:</p>
<p>“The federal government should push colleges to improve the criminal justice response to rape, de-emphasize internal judicial boards, put in place bystander intervention and risk reduction programs, and ensure comprehensive care for victims, RAINN advised a new White House task force charged with creating a plan to reduce rape on college campuses.”</p>
<p>“We urge the federal government to explore ways to ensure that college and universities treat allegations of sexual assault as they would murder and other violent felonies. The fact that the criminal justice process is difficult and imperfect, while true, is not sufficient justification for bypassing it in favor of an internal system that will never be up to the challenge.”</p>
<p>According to them, the focus on rape culture and internal academic boards undercuts what the real response should be – using and improving the system we have to fight crime. Which would help all women by the way, not just the small minority percentage who transitorily happen to be enrolled in a college at any particular point in time. Title ix doesn’t do squat to help my two daughters from ages 0-17 and from ages 22 to death. Just during four 9-month periods each year from ages 18-21. Stupid!!! </p>
<p>Think about this guys.</p>
<p>Jesse Matthew got kicked out of Liberty University but was never prosecuted because the victim at Liberty declined to press criminal charges. We know he went on to rape three women (two of whom he also killed). There’s probably a bunch more victims in addition.</p>
<p>“Marie1234, If it takes up to 7 years, don’t you think there should be a quicker way to deal with sexual assault?”</p>
<p>Seven years is Bravo Sierra.</p>
<p>In the recent case up at Dartmouth, the incident happened in May 2013 and the trial was March 2014. </p>
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<p>I know you’re just using this as an example, but let’s get real here, how about telling him to knock it off and if he does it again there will be consequences. Jeepers cannot young women just take a stance with the guys? Are they reallly such hot house flowers these days.</p>
<p>I get your point northwesty … For every sexual assault within the legal definition (and a but grab doesn’t meet criminal behavior in and of itself, at least in my state) how many complaints are kids that can’t communicate, can’t control their drinking and behavior and I’m not going to discriminate because women are equally aggressive after a few adult drinks. Let the colleges sort out the juvenile behavior and let the courts sort out the criminal behavior. </p>
<p>Northwesty, you are assuming that IF the victim at Liberty U had pressed charges, Matthews would have been convicted. We do know that there were no witnesses who could corroborate her story. In those circumstances, it is extremely unlikely that he would have been convicted. </p>
<p>And Christopher Newport has said that federal privacy laws limit the information it can release about the allegations against Matthews—and that’s the case AFTER he has been charged with 2 murders and an attempted murder. <a href=“http://wavy.com/2014/10/01/matthew-investigated-for-alleged-sex-assault-at-cnu/”>http://wavy.com/2014/10/01/matthew-investigated-for-alleged-sex-assault-at-cnu/</a> We don’t know why he wasn’t charged in that case.</p>
<p>The third alleged victim–the one who survived–left the US. She was NOT a student. She reported the crime, which took place in 2005 and it’s only NOW that there is evidence sufficient to charge Matthews with the crime. </p>
<p>It’s not as if a woman presses charges–even if she really WAS raped–a criminal conviction is likely to follow–let alone quickly. </p>
<p>If I am a college student, walking to class, I really think I should have a reasonable expectation of NOT having my butt grabbed. I don’t think I should be expected to deal with it. I think we should expect all students to be safe from the butt grabbing and from having to deal with it. Why is this even a debate? Because women do have to deal with it. And we just tell them to suck it up.</p>
<p>This is exactly what poetgrl describes as society thinking they have a right to women’s bodies. imho</p>
<p>and we do pretty much take it for granted. no big deal. </p>
<p>We need to draw a line and say “don’t touch without permission.” Affirmative consent.</p>
<p>“25% reported being sexually assaulted. 10% reported being raped. At least for my D’s college, one in five is neither preposterous nor ridiculous. Sadly it is pretty accurate.” </p>
<p>“You offer nothing in rebuttal. You, of course, have no evidence to offer about the incidence of acquaintance rape in Rwanda, Bosnia or anywhere else. Indeed, you have no evidence at all. Unable to produce something substantive, you are reduced to ranting.”</p>
<p>Magnetron – You obviously don’t believe that 10% of the girls at your daughter’s college get raped, since you let her attend anyway. Because if you did believe those stats, well then you would be the most horrible parent in America! </p>
<p>Fang – you are right I don’t know the incidence of rape in Rwanda or Bosnia. But how about this. US DOJ estimates that 4% of state/federal prison inmates are sexually victimized each year. Which is a chilling horrible number. Recognize that would add up to less than one in five over four years. </p>
<p>I don’t know if college campuses are worse than Rwanda or Bosnia. But apprarently they are worse than prisons? Seriously? </p>
<p>No one can believe that. If they did, colleges in America could not be populated 60% with female students. </p>
<p>Momofthreeboys, I was just making a point. ;)</p>
<p>Northwesty, who doesn’t want to strengthen the criminal justice system?</p>
<p>You want every case to go to the criminal justice system no matter what the case is?</p>
<p>You don’t think a school should discipline a student until after a criminal trial is over? What if there are appeals ?</p>
<p>Your last paragraph in post 3081 doesn’t give me much faith in the criminal justice system we have now.</p>
<p>I was involved in a civil case for 3 years. The case is still not finished. It is a rare case. </p>
<p>And for every honor tribunal that finally does expel someone who may actually be that rare serial rapist all that has occurred is the have dumped the guy out into society. If a woman is going to claim that someone raped her that is a serious, serious claim and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If a woman doesn’t “want to” go the distance then i think the university is never in a position to brand the person a rapist. Truthfully if that’s where it ends up the university should release the student to go somewhere else and not reflect the reason on the record since clearly the woman thinks he’s fine to be loose in society, she just doesn’t want him near her…that is much, much closer to what happens in business, the person is asked to resign way more often than the person is “fired” which creates a record and potential grounds for a lawsuit. I don’t know about NY co-ops but I do know about HR departments in multinational companies with deep pockets and they don’t fire indiscriminately.</p>
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<p>Perhaps not. As I earlier stated my comment was</p>
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<p>I was addressing a general statement</p>
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<p>Words such as “as perfect as possible” and “utopia” make me nervous especially when bureaucrats are involved.</p>
<p>" I detect some sort of “glee” in your endless negative depictions of Jackie. "</p>
<p>A-fricking-men. Thank you for pointing this out in her. </p>
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<p>Stark, Unless you have grandkids in high school our generations probably overlap.</p>
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<p>We have made great progress towards gender neutrality in many fields especially in academics. More women are in college than men. Women dominate the skills needed for the future jobs which have gone away from brawn. Women are making great progress towards being heads of household at equal rates as men. No educated woman these days need a man to help her through life though progress has been leaner at lower education levels.</p>
<p>However I am not sure how comfortable men are with this so more cultural change is most definitely needed. I am hopeful however by the time I die we will have a largely gender neutral society.</p>
<p>You have to begrudging admit it’s a tad ironic that there is all this emphasis on protecting women and keeping them safe from big bad man while the same women are reaping the benefits of previous generations pushing for social and monetary equality. I’ve never been in favor of considering women a class that needs “special protection”</p>
<p>I am reading a different thread. I am reading support of women brave enough to speak up, after being raised in a society that tells them butt grabbing is something they just need to deal with, an annoying part of life.</p>
<p>We don’t have ERA. We don’t have equal pay. We don’t have support for working mothers: universal affordable daycare, etc. We are losing access to birth control. </p>
<p>We don’t get control over our bodies. Men do.</p>
<p>We do have some women who are very successful and sometimes that seems to me because they bought into the old boys club and just became one of the boys themselves. If you are one of those boys, the world probably looks pretty great.</p>
<p>I intend no insult to Dstark, JHS, and other men posting here. TV4caster? </p>
<p>“I was involved in a civil case for 3 years. The case is still not finished. It is a rare case.”</p>
<p>Stark – read the U.S. Constitution. There’s a right to speedy trial in criminal cases. They don’t take 7 years. Total BS.</p>
<p>Civil court cases (which are not relevant in this discussion) are different. There’s no right to speedy civil cases.</p>
<p>Hugueley was convicted of murder 21 months after the incident, which was a very slow pace. The Dartmouth kid was acquitted of rape 10 months after the incident. </p>
<p>“If I am a college student, walking to class, I really think I should have a reasonable expectation of NOT having my butt grabbed.” </p>
<p>I have no problem with Dean Wormer putting the butt grabber on double secret probation without the college making a federal case (proceedurally speaking) out of it. I said that 100 pages ago. </p>
<p>Apologies to CNU. It DOES indicate on a transcript when a student is dismissed for non-academic reasons, although apparently the reasons aren’t specified. <a href=“http://wavy.com/2014/12/02/cnu-president-its-time-to-report-expulsions-on-transcripts/”>http://wavy.com/2014/12/02/cnu-president-its-time-to-report-expulsions-on-transcripts/</a></p>
<p>If the butt grabber does it again, do you have a problem if the school throws him out?</p>
<p>10-21 months is a long time if a person was raped. Do you have a problem with the alleged rapist being suspended until after the trial?</p>
<p>Why can’t we just teach everyone this simple rule before they get to college? Don’t grab anyone’s butt uninvited.</p>
<p>That would save a lot of time and grief. imho</p>
<p><a href=“http://wavy.com/2014/12/01/va-delegate-sponsors-campus-sexual-assault-legislation/”>http://wavy.com/2014/12/01/va-delegate-sponsors-campus-sexual-assault-legislation/</a></p>
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<p>@alh For heavens’ sake, she said that the woman should take matters into her own hands and tell the guy to knock it off immediately or there would be consequences. What in doG’s name is wrong with that? What about that says that he or any other guy has a “right to her body”? No one is saying that she should just accept such boorish behavior! Are we equals or are we pathetic little girly-girls who need to be defended at every turn because we couldn’t possibly be expected to speak up for ourselves? If, after telling the jerk to keep his hands to himself, she chooses to report him, that’s her choice.</p>
<p>I said earlier that in the case of body-part grabbers I would favor a graduated system of penalties, along the lines of: first offence, you apologize face to face and attend a mandatory class on sexual harassment, treating other people with respect, etc. Second offence, you are suspended. Third offence, you are expelled. One could skip directly from one to three depending on how egregious the offence is. </p>