All UVa frats on suspension

Parents Forum
3061

<p>“As soon as you make a residency requirement, you become responsible for the safety of those you are requiring to live there.”</p>

<p>Nonsense.</p>

<p>At UVA, most kids only live in the on campus dorms for one year. So 3/4 of the students live in off campus apartments in town. So do lots of other females who are not students. All the frat houses are off campus. The police have jurisdiction over the town. Title IX and UVA have jurisidiction in sporadic, non-sensical ways.</p>

<p>Hannah Graham lived in an off campus apartment and was abducted on the Charlottesville down town mall by non-student Jesse Matthew. Morgan Harrington was a student at Va Tech who happened to be visiting C’ville for a concert. She was on a public non-university street when Matthew abducted her. </p>

<p>Yeardley Love was killed in an off-campus apartment by a student who also lived off-campus. </p>

<p>The connection to a UVA educational program or some alleged UVA gender discrimination is slight to non-existent and sporadic to the point of randomness.</p>

<p>I doubt Birch Bayh had any concept that he was writing a law that would morph into an academic system to adjudicate class A felonies. The whole thing is really pre-posterous.</p>

3062

<p>Hmmmmm…that is a lot of students killed…</p>

3063

<p>Two of them and perhaps a few non-students as well were killed by the same suspected serial killer who was kicked out two prior colleges a decade earlier before going to work as an orderly at a UVA hospital. So yeah. That is not something to be adjudicated by a school tribunal which is I think the point some of us are trying to make here to no avail apparently.</p>

3064

<p>Northwesty. You are saying that a campus rape problem is not a campus safety problem? </p>

<p>Odd</p>

3065

<p>I don’t get it…</p>

<p>There are different levels of crime.</p>

<p>I don’t see anybody saying certain crimes should not be handled in the court system.</p>

<p>The last sentence Marie1234 is nonsense.</p>

3066

<p>It’s a preposterous either/or divide. It’s not either a school adjudication OR a criminal investigation. It’s both.</p>

<p>Just like if it were to happen at JPMorgan, or Deloitte. </p>

<p>It’s both.</p>

3067

<p>The 49ers kicked Ray McDonald off the team. Now the crimial justice system will do its part. </p>

3068

<p>The girls are choosing not to pursue criminal cases 80-percent of the time.</p>

3069

<p>The girls are being directed not to pursue criminal cases, by everyone around them. The girls are being offered no support to report, not in any material substantive way. That needs to change.</p>

3070

<p>Well, it’s more complicated than that because the advocate counselor people don’t want then to have to file criminal cases including the UVA advocate who didn’t do that in her own case. They want an alternate system to get something they feel is justice but in most cases they don’t want to pursue a criminal case and having another option discourages it further. Toddlers call 911 so the support part I don’t quite understand. Also, many of these cases are not criminal at all. so, there is that, too.</p>

3071

<p>Marie1234, We went through this already. How are you going to force somebody to go to the criminal system? Many women do not want to go through the criminal justice system. If there is a major crime, the school should bypass the student and go to the criminal justice system. They can kick out the accused too. </p>

<p>How long does it take to go through the criminal justice system? A poster who said his daughter was assaulted said it takes 7 years.</p>

<p>I don’t know. Most students get out of school in 4 to 6 years.</p>

3072

<p>Yes, I know. Like Northwesty I haven’t figured out why there needs to be a special other system for students. In the real gang rape William Paterson case the boys were arrested in 3 days and are no longer attending classes although they are out on bail, I think. In the I felt violated but it’s not criminal cases where the girl wants an apology I’m not sure why the school needs to be involved at all. And, in cases where the girl is claiming to be attacked by room full of frat boys and we end up with a phony photo and fake texts to herself and others from an imaginary third-year named Haven, we just have a real mess. I don’t think it’s progress.</p>

3073

<p>Marie1234, If it takes up to 7 years, don’t you think there should be a quicker way to deal with sexual assault?</p>

<p>A guy grabs my butt. Besides being very annoying, should I call the cops? How about I go to the school and file a complaint? How about the school notifying this guy and saying if you do this again to anybody you are suspended or expelled? The guy will say, “I didn’t do it”.
The school will say,“Ok. Then we won’t have a problem”. </p>

<p>A guy is accused of breaking into a room and raping a girl. Why can’t the school and the justice system deal with this guy?</p>

<p>The justice system is too slow and imperfect.</p>

3074

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<p>I think the point you are trying to make (but, correct me if I am wrong) is that since most students live off campus, the University doesn’t have control over where many of those kids live, and, therefore, are somewhat powerless to control things. I won’t argue that one way or the other but I will point out a few things. First, your comment sounds to me like you meant that UVA shouldn’t even protect its on campus students since the OP said “requiring to live there”. That to me means on-campus. </p>

<p>I also would point out that your 3/4 of students living off campus is not even close. That would be the case if not a single 2nd - 4th year lived on campus, and that isn’t true. There are thousands of 2nd through 4th years that live in the dorms . In addition to the usual dorms for non 1st yr students you now have the new cluster of huge dorms on O-hill. Then there are the University owned apartments like Lambeth etc. </p>

<p>Finally, even though the frats are not on University property the school has a measure of control over them re: their policies. </p>

3075

<p>Marie1234, imo, you are way too hung up on the jackie case. I promise you there are more sexual assaults.</p>

<p>Yes means yes seems to be working at my old campus. There seems to be an attitude change. If there are fewer assaults because of this attitude change, that’s a win.</p>

3076

<p>“Marie1234, imo, you are way too hung up on the jackie case”</p>

<p>Probably true. I’m endlessly fascinated for a variety of reasons.</p>

3077

<p>Marie1234, it is a fascinating story! :)</p>

<p>Edit… I had to take out the word great and replace it with fascinating. Otherwise, my intent of the sentence could be misinterpreted. :)</p>

3078

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<p>BOTH the rape Matthews was alleged to have committed at Christopher Newport AND the rape he allegedly committed at Liberty U WERE REPORTED TO THE POLICE and the POLICE did NOT charge him. <a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/court-hearing-for-suspect-in-disappearance-of-u-va-student-hannah-graham-moved/2014/10/01/e2b66508-4988-11e4-b72e-d60a9229cc10_story.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/court-hearing-for-suspect-in-disappearance-of-u-va-student-hannah-graham-moved/2014/10/01/e2b66508-4988-11e4-b72e-d60a9229cc10_story.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Are you and momrath SERIOUSLY arguing that because Matthews was NOT charged with a crime by the police, Christopher Newport and Liberty U should have permitted him to remain on campus as a student? Because, frankly, that’s the logical outcome of your arguments that we should not have separate university systems for adjudicating such allegations and should leave it all to the police.</p>

<p>Are you arguing that if they had allowed Matthews to remain as a student he would not have allegedly raped, murdered, and attempted to murder at least 3 more people? Or are you suggesting that if he’d remained on campus, he would have attempted to rape and murder other students and would have been caught earlier–after presumably murdering Liberty and Christopher Newport students instead of allegedly murdering UVA and Virginia Tech students!!! </p>

<p>Now, if a brokerage firm concludes that a broker probably forged a customer’s signature, it will fire him, put that fact on his U-5 (a required form), AND, in most cases, report the forgery to criminal authorities. If the broker is NOT charged with a crime for whatever reason, our system REQUIRES the brokerage firm to report that its own investigation concluded that he did forge the signature. The required form may even include information like “when asked how he could explain the fact that the customer apparently signed the form after his death, Broker asserted his 5th Amendment privilege and refused to answer.” </p>

<p>So, personally, I think what might have helped here was a law that when a university kicks out a student because it concludes he probably raped someone, that fact has to be reported by the college. (Liberty U kicked him out for having sex, which I doubt would cause most employers to hesitate to hire him.) If they had, maybe Matthews would not have been able to get a job working at UVa hospital. Just a thought…Of course, we’ll never know. </p>

<p>Yep, I acknowledge that in some cases that may be unfair. But, I think that the standard of proof for putting Jesse Matthews in prison for a long, long time for allegedly raping another student and the standard of proof for kicking him out of college for allegedly raping another student don’t have to be one and the same. Indeed, I don’t think they SHOULD be.</p>

<p>Obviously, you and momrath think differently. </p>

3079

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<p>We give you the survey that got that number. We give you articles from the people who conducted the survey, explaining how it worked. We explain that the people who produced your preferred, lower, number themselves acknowledge that their lower statistics are undercounts.</p>

<p>You offer nothing in rebuttal. You, of course, have no evidence to offer about the incidence of acquaintance rape in Rwanda, Bosnia or anywhere else. Indeed, you have no evidence at all. Unable to produce something substantive, you are reduced to ranting. </p>

3080

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<p>When I went with my D to her freshman orientation last summer, one parent asked the head of the counseling department for their assault numbers. They had just finished a survey of female graduating seniors.</p>

<p>25% reported being sexually assaulted.
10% reported being raped.</p>

<p>At least for my D’s college, one in five is neither preposterous nor ridiculous. Sadly it is pretty accurate.</p>