<p>Great. What page does it say colleges are obligated to secrecy and can 't report crimes to the police?</p>
<p><a href=“Accusers and the Accused, Crossing Paths at Columbia University - The New York Times”>http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/nyregion/accusers-and-the-accused-crossing-paths-at-columbia.html</a></p>
<p>Free speech or bullying? The mattress girl and Columbia University. He was found not responsible in the university’s hearing. She didn’t file criminal charges but carries a mattress around trying to shame him. </p>
<p>It is Bullying…I do not purport to know all the details and evidence in the case, only the general story. No one does so I cannot and do not have an opinion on the outcome but there has been an outcome. The fact that she is not okay with the outcome and is now protesting at the accused expense is basically subjecting him to her own justice. He will graduate with a degree from Columbia but still have a hard time finding a job etc. It is vigilante justice and should not be tolerated in my opinion. </p>
<p>I think it’s important to think carefully about the extent to which we want colleges to report allegations of sexual assault (or any other crime) when the complainant doesn’t want it reported to the police. It seems to me that there are various risks here. First, if the college routinely reports allegations to the police, this could discourage victims from reporting to the college and obtaining the support the college provides. On the other hand, the current situation creates the risk that the college officials might persuade the victim not to report to the police in order to protect the image of the college.</p>
<p>It’s difficult. What’s the college supposed to do when it gets the third complaint against the same person, but all the complainants want to pursue informal procedures only? This is probably the guy we all really want to get expelled (and prosecuted). But are we really ready to tell those victims that there will be a formal proceeding and/or a criminal report if they don’t want it?</p>
<p>Note: some victims don’t want to report because they are afraid of what the perpetrator might do in the future. It’s not just because they are ashamed. It’s difficult to balance fear for one’s own welfare and the risk to other people if the predator isn’t stopped.</p>
<p>re Post 3416 by LF. </p>
<p>Actually, my post is dead on. I asked my senior counsel about it today and his response is that people make the mistake of misreading the strength of legal exceptions, which you are doing. And my post was not opinion, but exactly how it works and is why the default is not to report and will continue to be so. </p>
<p>Note the quote you put in Post 3416, especially note the myriad of words such as if, may, weigh, and evaluate. Those words indicate, as I stated that they are major legal exceptions not to be crossed over lightly and the huddle is high. </p>
<p>Additionally, a case of he said she said rape does not meet any of this huddle at all, and thus will not be applicable 95%+ of rape cases on colleges. And the cases that may be covered have to be bad enough that all students records would be open, as would be in a police investigation. The accuser cannot pick and choose what to share with police. </p>
<p>In short, the serious legal power lies with the accuser if she demands continued confidentiality, which she has by default. It would be rather at cross purposes for the college to report in such a case because: 1) it forces a female to become an unwillingly plaintiff, which drastically weakens her claim in the eyes of a jury, and 2) if sued by the unwilling plaintiff, the school must prove how it weighed and evaluated overriding the student’s demand for confidentiality. The schools cannot even handle the tribunals, much less, weigh the legal implications of whether a case should go to the police or not. And thus the school opens itself up to how it handles other cases etc. Discovery is a b…</p>
<p>Bottim line, the school gains nothing, and and risks losing something, if it goes to the police against the accuser’s wishes. They realize this, and this is why is why it rarely ever happens. </p>
<p>But the more dangerous side effect is that students will not longer trust the college to protect their information - across the board. The lost of that trust would be damaging to everything in the handbook because students would be afraid to report major personal problems, if it gets around that if a person asks the school to keep their info quiet and the school might not. Therefore, in addition to the psychological damage it causes the accuser who sees her wishes disregarded, the school loses big-time in the long-term in its relationship with students.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine the effect on my company if employees did not think what they told superiors was not confidential and that we would not respect their wishes to keep something personal and private. That is why unless it is something like murder and the other exceptions I stated that make our company complicit in a crime, we will never break that confidentiality, no matter what we think of the personal situation.</p>
<p>It is not written anywhere that the schools can’t report a crime to the police without a victim’s cooperation. </p>
<p>What would be the point with no victim and no accused, though? I mean I suppose they could step up security but that’s about it.</p>
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<p>But, if it is a legally perilous thing to do and disruptive to a community’s relationship with admin, the effect is the same - they do not do it, quite smartly in fact. Not worth it.</p>
<p>Imagine that you have been given the job of writing the college policy on when to report allegations to the police against the wishes of the complainant. What will your policy be? For example, will it be:
- Any complaint, which, if true, would constitute a felony.
- Any complaint involving accusations of violence
- Any serious complaint against a person who has been the subject of prior complaints
- A complaint that suggests that other students may be in danger if the police are not involved
- Something else?
I think you can see problems with any of these lines. I think it’s probably true that it’s extremely rare for a college to report to the police if the accuser doesn’t want it to happen. I note, in passing, that in the Columbia case, none of the three separate complainants was willing to go to the police. How would the dynamics of that case have been different if the college had done so against their wishes?</p>
<p>The police don’t know there was no victim. There has to be an investigation. The police are investigating now.</p>
<p>There is no victim if no victim comes forward. You want the police to find a frat guilty of raping an anonymous victim. How? They are investigating but if it happened it was two years ago and they put two officers on the case and now they have Drew becoming Haven Monahan who is also not a real person.</p>
<p>This is a police matter? Really?</p>
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<p>Ahh…no. The accuser already would have stated to admin she was an alleged victim, but asked for confidentiality. </p>
<p>However, the school cannot go to the police and say “We think there was crime here” on a whim or story by an accuser. They need something concrete, such as an alleged victim willing to report to the police and identify an accused etc. Police do not go on fishing expeditions based on what admins said they were told by a student. Again, especially if the student asked for confidentiality. </p>
<p>Yes, a school can report the case to police, but it really has to be a bad situation for that to occur. I mean really bad to the point the school can cover their rear-ends when the accuser is angry at it. </p>
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<p>From what I’ve read about the Columbia case, it would have been a waste of time to go to the police. That’s not a knock on the police. There’s just not enough evidence that crimes occurred.</p>
<p>No I don’t. I want this case investigated in case there are gang rapers on campus. </p>
<p>A friend of my son’s, when he was around 10 years old, wrote the word “help” on a bedroom window in my house. The window was facing the street. I left it there. I thought it was funny. Somebody called the cops. 10 years later. :)</p>
<p>Two cops came over. They were Super super serious. I told them the story. They both stayed serious throughout my telling of the story. One cracked a slight smile for a second. 
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<p>I wasn’t arrested. There was no conviction. The cops investigated. That’s it.</p>
<p>An investigation is not an arrest. It is not a conviction.</p>
<p>The police are investigating Jackie’s case now so …</p>
<p>Jameis Winston cleared in code of conduct hearing:</p>
<p><a href=“Jameis Winston cleared in FSU code of conduct hearing”>Jameis Winston cleared in FSU code of conduct hearing;
<p>I thought the retired justice’s wording in his decision was interesting in how he came to his decision:</p>
<p>“As summarized in the preceding paragraphs, the evidence regarding the events that unfolded between you and (the woman) once in your room is irreconcilable. In light of all the circumstances, I do not find the credibility of one story substantially stronger than that of the other. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. I cannot find with any confidence that the events as set forth by you, (the woman), or a particular combination thereof is more probable than not as required to find you responsible for a violation of the Code.”</p>
<p>So basically, he said, she said, and the justice didn’t or couldn’t believe one over the other in any meaningful way? </p>
<p>The school can go to the police. </p>
<p>Yes. It is a police matter. </p>
<p>The police are investigating. </p>
<p>The police are only investigating now by accident re the RS story. Not something to be viewed as useful, as an operating policy.</p>
<p>Many girls won’t report to the school under those circumstances and Jackie is probably one of them since the unraveling of her story would have happened a long time ago. Now that doesn’t bother me at all because I am still trying to figure out why a rape victim would tell a dean instead of a cop in the first place. But, others do think this is significant.</p>
<p>NOW there is not enough evidence to decide whether Jameis Winston or his accuser is telling the truth. That’s because, due to the culpable negligence of the police and the shameful obstruction by the FSU Athletic Department, the evidence that might have shed light on the matter was destroyed before the police got around to investigating.</p>
<p>Mattress girl represents the exception to Hunt’s rule. 3 female students complained about the same student to Columbia. Setting aside the merits of the claims, the 3 admit that they had talked to each other about their experiences and decided that the 3 of them should all complain, since they felt it would make it more likely the accused would be found “guilty” by the tribunal. That DOES happen and, to me at least, the likelihood of a “witch hunt” in these situations is greater than when 3 young women who know nothing about each other’s claims all claim the same young man assaulted them.</p>
<p>(As an example of the latter, there is no evidence that the young woman at Liberty U who said Jesse Matthews assaulted her and the young woman at Christopher Newport who said so had any reason to know about the other’s allegations. In that case, I personally think it’s more likely the allegations are truthful.)</p>
<p>“Mattress man” was initially found “guilty” of one of the 3 claims–a groping incident which took place at a gathering for a society. The context makes it more likely than there was a witness to some of the alleged behavior. (I don’t know if there was; I’m ONLY saying that it was more likely) One of the claims was based on multiple “assaults” during a month long relationship. That one gives me pause—someone assaults you and you keep seeing him? (Yes, there are abusive marriages, but physical abuse doesn’t usually begin at the beginning in these cases and the victim often has children she is trying to protect.) And the third is mattress girl’s case. It doesn’t seem to me to meet the preponderance of evidence standard, and apparently Columbia didn’t think so either.</p>
<p>If “Mattress Man” is innocent, what’s happened to him is awful. However, if he did rape “mattress girl,” then I don’t think society or her college has the right to silence her just because a college tribunal didn’t find a preponderance of evidence to support her claim. </p>