<p>Marie, I wrote about that thousands of posts ago. It’s a fine line. </p>
<p>A friend of mine left her garage door open. At two in the morning, she could see a flashlight and a shadow of a man walking around her garage. She freaked out. Her husband was out of town. She called the cops. She told the dispatcher to please no hang up until the cops showed up. After contacting the cops, the dispatcher told my friend, “The man in the garage is a cop. You left the garage door open. He is investigating.” :)</p>
<p>I don’t care if posters disagree with me on this. </p>
<p>The police can investigate. That is a fact. </p>
<p>Easy answer - They are being taught the tribunals as some easier path to adjudication than the real police. In a weird way, the tribunals have effectively reduced alleged rape in the eyes of college females to an administrative issue, not a felony. Not sure how that is an advancement at all. Seems like going backwards to me. </p>
<p>There are also two issues here: confidentiality and tribunals. </p>
<p>My take:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If a student asks for confidentiality then that applies across the board, in my view, meaning no tribunal and no police report.</p></li>
<li><p>However, if the female asks for a tribunal, then the school at that point should also report to the police. At least then, there is an identified alleged victim and an alleged accused. and police can investigate away. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>What I do not like is this watering down of rape, inside the college walls, to an administrative issue - no longer a real crime really, just something for deans to iron out. </p>
<p>I don’t have as much trouble with that as you do, jonri, perhaps because I was once in a relationship with a guy who, at one point, hit me. I did drop him, but it was a few days later. I didn’t do what I should have done, kick him to the curb on the spot. So I can understand how a young woman would stay with her abuser for a few weeks. It looks idiotic in hindsight, but matters are never so clear at the time, and the woman is thinking, “Wait, did he just do that? He’s acting like nothing happened. Am I overreacting?”</p>
<p>On the other hand, Mattress Guy’s three accusers getting together beforehand does make it easier for them to subconsciously tailor their three stories to work together. </p>
<p>Some of this arguing is silliness. Some of it is its own spin. Some don’t like Title IX, (and seem to want to argue from the armchair,) but it exists- and we’ve been over and over the wording that mandates a college take steps and what they are. That includes informing the accuser of her right to contact police. </p>
<p>You can speculate why she might not, but the right remains. And the college’s need to ensure she knows. And the college’s need to do something about the situation, on campus. Even if she wants confidentiality, even if she doesn’t want her accusations to end in a hearing. </p>
<p>The Codes of Conduct are one place the colleges reflect Title IX. Sure, some may word it a little differently, but the net goal is the same: adherence.</p>
<p>Do they screw up? Obviously. </p>
<p>The interesting thing about Title IX is, to me, the fact that you can read the relevant portions, the DCLs, some college Codes of Conduct, and see what it aims for. There, in black and white. The speculation becomes counter-productive. Maybe she this, maybe that, “I don’t think,” or “But, maybe…” </p>
<p>Title IX is about climate not Class A felonies. To call it a stretch is an understatement and more importantly people are starting to wake up to that fact. It’s called backlash.</p>
<p>Regarding awc’s “take,” it is clearly stated in various documents, how confidentiality applies to various players. And that the college still has over-arching responsibilities to its community. Even a glance at the relevant portions makes it clear. I’ve even quoted some. So whats the confusion? Confidentiality does not equate to squelch. </p>
<p>“Easy answer - They are being taught the tribunals as some easier path to adjudication than the real police. In a weird way, the tribunals have effectively reduced alleged rape in the eyes of college females to an administrative issue, not a felony. Not sure how that is an advancement at all. Seems like going backwards to me.”</p>
<p>+1. That’s why some victim advocate organizations, like RAINN, have recommended that the college tribunals be de-emphasized. Their view is that the colleges should focus on supporting and coordinating with law enforcement rather than serving as an alternative choice. They also say that colleges would be more effective focusing their efforts on awareness and prevention.</p>
<p>Dstark. I’m not arguing with you and I don’t mind the police investigating. I don’t know what UVA was told so I’m not ready to slam them for not calling the police since the story is certainly strange and changeable they could have heard one of a number of different versions and determined any number of possibilities and they are required to offer her choices which they did and the police are investigating. But, if they called them earlier that would be okay with me. Or not. That could be okay, too.</p>
<p>His point is that schools can report a suspected crime, even if the student requests confidentiality. Several posters have stated the opposite, but they are incorrect. Moreover, in rare egregious cases, the school not only can, but will, report a suspected crime. If a student presents a credible allegation that she was raped at gunpoint by another identified student, she might ask for confidentiality but IMO it’s unlikely she’ll get it.</p>
I have a slightly different answer to this. I think students go to college authorities first because often they see those authorities as able to help and support–and in fact, in many cases, they do. As for reporting to the police, as I’ve tried to point out a number of times, many college-based cases are highly unlikely to be successfully prosecuted because of the proof problems. College authorities know this very well, and they may tell complainant the truth about the likelihood of a particular case going through the criminal process successfully. Complainants may make an entirely rational decision to pursue the college’s complaint process–even the informal complaint process which has limited (or no) possibility of serious punishment–because they are more likely to get some kind of relief through that process than is likely through the criminal courts.</p>
<p>Everybody would like a magic wand that would make these kinds of allegations easier to prove. I don’t think anybody has found it, though.</p>
<p>Ok, so two (?) posters thought wrongly? The regulations might be read to conflict with your point of view, so it is understandable that they thought that. Anyone can report anything to the police and the police can investigate anything they want. If the U has to keep the victim’s name confidential, then it will impede and maybe prevent an investigation. I think that is what many people were saying, not that the police cannot investigate. Of course they can.</p>
<p>Bay, there are some here I disagree with, but who clearly read the documents and are trying to get the gist. And some I suspect have not read them, but just want to describe their concerns and fears. For a while, I played a little game, predicting who’d turn the talk back to Jackie, RS and the U, when it got hot in the details kitchen. Just sayin’.</p>
<p>How many times have we said it, even just this am? There are conditions under which the school is unable to maintain strict confidentiality. And circumstances where they can keep confidentiality, but still pursue both police support and their own work.</p>
<p>Re mattress girl, I find it rather strange that she says she won’t go to the police because it would be “too exhausting,” yet she is not exhausted by the physical effort and notoriety of dragging a 50-lb mattress with her everywhere she goes. </p>
<p>Of course, the mattress stunt does not involve having to answer actual <em>questions</em>.</p>
<p>When I originally heard about this case, which was presented as “three separate women file charges against a guy, but he walks,” I was inclined to support the women and figured he was a serial predator. Finding out that a) they colluded in putting together their stories, and b) the actual nature of the complaints, I am now more inclined to think that Columbia acted reasonably. It may well be that the guy is an insensitive jerk where sex is concerned, but it doesn’t sound like he is a rapist.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Schools can report whatever they want to police.</p></li>
<li><p>Police can investigate anything they want.</p></li>
<li><p>If the victim requests confidentiality and does not consent to talk to the police, #1 and #2 will rarely happen. Because it will rarely make any sense to do so.</p></li>
</ol>