So why do rapey fraternities exist if people know about them?
The school administrators don’t know about them? National organizations don’t know about them?
^^short answer?
We don’t want to believe our sons rape anyone.
Boys will be boys. It isn’t really rape. There is another explanation.
A good friend’s daughter was given a roofie and raped at a college. It was years ago and the daughter is still living with this.
The rapist is somewhere…out there.
I don’t think he did it once. That is speculation on my part.
I am very sorry for your friend’s daughter dstark and remember you saying someone close to you had been raped.
I am like al2simon. I can’t imagine this behavior, once or more than once. When this happens at fraternities, it doesn’t seem like one person acting in secret. There probably are some experts reading who could explain it to us.
I think one issue is that so many decent people do find these sorts of actions unbelievable.
adding: it’s my bedtime. anything else I write this late will be a mistake.
Alh, thanks.
I find those answers about rapey fraternities unsatisfying. 
I don’t go into every case doubting, at all. The RS story was an agenda piece that read like bad fiction and there were giveaways leaping out of the writing style. This case is completely different in every possible way but most importantly it was promptly reported to the police which is what I have been saying on this thread should always happen with anything criminal every time. No deans, ever.
Does anyone know if tox screens are done with all rape kits or if all date rape drugs show up? If one wasn’t done here it’ll be he said/she said (and we all know how that usually goes)
There is a warning text and cell phone pings that put her somewhere she doesn’t remember being and several people have been interviewed. The cops also got a search warrant and hauled a bunch of stuff out of the house. Details matter. This one does not at all sound like it will be a he said, she said.
Even if they don’t always test for date rape drugs, in this case surely they would. A young woman walks into the emergency room saying she had one drink, then someone gave her hot chocolate and next thing she can remember, she woke up in a different place with half of her clothes off and it was ten hours later? Yeah, I think the doctors would test for rohypnol. I don’t know how long it takes to get out of the body though.
This is interesting. Especially the part about it not be detectable by common means.
Most tests will only detect benzodiazepines for a maximum of 72 hours after it was taken. Most general benzodiazepine-detection tests will not detect Rohypnol: that requires a test specifically designed for that purpose. One new process can detect of 2 mg dose of Rohypnol for up to 28 days post-ingestion.[14][19] Other tests for Rohypnol include blood and hair tests. Because the most commonly used drug tests often yield false negatives for Rohypnol, experts recommend use of gas chromatography-mass spectrometry analysis.[1][20][21]
It sounds like any woman who feels they have been “roofied” needs to go to the police and/or hospital. Friends could help with that if they believe their friend has been to an alleged “rapey” house or “roofie” house.
I believe it was Looking Forward who originally linked to the Brown case. http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/20/us/brown-university-frat-sanctions/
I wonder if those students had read this:
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/sexual_assault_&_dating_violence/date_rape_drugs.php
It seems to me when waking up in that situation, women will not necessarily be thinking clearly and media role models for how to respond may be useful to them. Al2simon’s comparison of the courage of those who report to the courage of those in our armed forces touched me. I think these women are very courageous. However, it seems to me a bit different One usually chooses to serve and understands the sacrifices that may be required. One is prepared. A woman who wakes up after having been drugged and raped might never have anticipated having to make the sacrifices that will be required of her if she reports. She may be in disbelief. When she does report, I agree with al2simon: She is a hero. She is helping all of us fix this problem. I am defining the problem as rape.
Dstark asks:
That is a good question. Why do they exist?
Marie says:
I agree with Marie and know this without a doubt as well. Why do they exist and what can we do to end their existence?
al2simon: Sincere apologies for misquoting you above. I should have reread all last night’s posts again this morning before posting. I would edit but it’s too late.
I wonder if some of the “rapey” house stuff could be a matter of semantics, code for the climate of a particular fraternity? When an alumna of one of my kid’s schools asked what fraternity he was in and I told her the fraternity, she said something to the effect that those guys were known for being “nice” guys. Maybe “rapey” can mean there are guys that are more aggressive in seeking sex, not necessarily that they are actually raping women in the actual legal sense of that. I just don’t know. But calling a house a “roofie” house is definitely serious and if there is credible evidence of anyone being drugged, that needs to be reported to administrators and police at the highest levels.That is certainly a public safely issue.
Alh, I also see this, which is from this week, so one would expect it to be the right sort of responsive. It has several links. Just putting it here for those who are interested in a current view from one school. http://brown.edu/about/administration/president/satf-implementation
Thank you for that link. I think it is well worth reading. I’m going to read it over now very carefully.
From lookingforward’s link:
Alh’s comment above has made me think about my cousin some more. He was really more like a nephew because he was 20 years younger than me. I’d link to his citation but we share the same last name and I don’t wish to identify myself. I can tell you that what he did was very brave and he almost certainly knew he would likely die. In real life, he wasn’t anyone who you’d think of as a warrior or a hero. But he knew what the stakes were. I think there’s a lesson for rape survivors and for the rest of us here when it comes to reporting, to schools if not the police.
For all the good things that go on at colleges, I think they’ve really lost their way when it comes to educating young men to be leaders with character. The environment is filled with politicized groupthink. Athletic coaches long since stopped caring about anything but winning and their salaries. There are very few role models that will appeal to young men. I don’t think universities understand this or even can understand it. It’s no wonder you sometimes get a scene from Lord of the Flies when you have 19 year olds trying to lead each other.
One phrase that some activists use is “rape culture”. I find it offensive and I really dislike it. Regardless of whether or not they have a point, using it is counterproductive. I believe the best way to improve campus culture is to inspire people, not divide or condemn them. As a former young man, here’s what I think. Within every man beats the heart of a monster and a hero. We’ve been focusing on the monster part. But if you can inspire the hero part you have the best chance of getting young men to rise to the challenge of creating a safer environment around them.
But they’re right to put emphasis on culture. Every fraternity on a campus usually has a stereotype. For my part, I’ve always been amazed at how similar each stereotype is to what they were 30 years ago when I was in college despite the fact that there’s a whole new group of guys every few years. To me, this shows how strong culture can be and how it can replicate itself. I don’t know whether that means “rapey” houses select for boys like this or create them. But we should probably shut them down.
al2simon: I think it is impossible to pay enough tribute to those who give up their lives in service of our country. My sincere condolences on your loss.
4377
I absolutely agree with this:
How can we do that?
I also agree that some fraternities keep the same sort of reputation for years, and have posted that on several threads, if not anywhere on this one. I want to shut them down, too.