[quote=awc]
And interestingly, colleges have fallen into this trap as well; thinking that sexual assault and crimes can be handled in the same system as everything else. I posit sexual assault cannot and most crimes cannot, and these are best handled differently. And this is where colleges are getting creamed./quote
If you are talking about getting creamed monetarily, which I assume you are, then I disagree. Many people have pointed out that both the number of cases and the total monetary amount over a multi year span is minuscule. It isn’t even a rounding error.
I would be absolutely delighted if sorority women boycotted fraternity parties, but only if it is their decision, not a directive to them from authority figures.
adding: though I must admit to having mixed feelings. Older sorority members are recognizing a problem - at long last. That is really something. I salute them.
@TV4caster “If you are talking about getting creamed monetarily, which I assume you are, then I disagree. Many people have pointed out that both the number of cases and the total monetary amount over a multi year span is minuscule. It isn’t even a rounding error.”
I agree with you TV. And when you add in the fact that most corporations now carry Employment Practice Liability Insurance which covers sexual misconduct in the workplace, it is the insurance company that is “writing the check.” To large corporations any increase in premiums is a drop in the bucket and the smaller companies who have concerns with those issues simply add it as an endorsement to their Business Owners Policy.
As I said upthread a lot of what is being said here on the corporate front makes absolutely no sense to me.
While I agree that it’s not a long-term solution, this is how I see it:
Women have what men want (news flash). Frats only have social power / standing if women show up to their parties and events.
The NPC is in essence suggesting a boycott - no different from when people boycott Domino’s Pizza or Chik-Fil-A or Walmart because they don’t like the policies of those places – which they are perfectly free to do.
How is that not “powerful” and empowering? This is EXACTLY what women should do IMO. What better way to force the issue of “clean up your act” than to say – and stand by – “we won’t show up til we can feel assured these parties and these houses are safe and we won’t be taken advantage of”?
How do you expect the “bad” frats to clean up their act if women keep doing the same thing – showing up on Saturday night looking for a good time?
Agree - never had anything even close to a rape occur in our company, but then again I work in a fairly typical white collar environment and not for the Bada Bing with Tony Soprano. However, if one were to occur and someone told me that our legal liability could be eliminated by writing a check, then I’d write the check in a heartbeat. Our first priority though would be getting the victim whatever help they needed - it’s both the compassionate thing to do and the smart thing to do.
I suppose if a supervisor forced a subordinate to sleep with them or lose their job then that would be rape in most states - that scenario must sometimes occur in corporate settings and the employer would be embroiled in the problem.
PizzaGirl - not quite sure that’s how I read the NPC’s action, but thanks for bringing up the boycott thing. To be honest, I kinda wanted to ask all the former sorority members about how the “rapey” frats even stayed around, but I wasn’t sure how to even ask the question in the right way.
alh - I do hear what you’re saying and I wish it were voluntary - but part of sisterhood is “sister care,” and it seems to me that the nationals are doing what they can to ensure safe sisterhood - just as they encourage girls-going-together-to-parties and the like.
I agree with you Pizza. I didn’t see it as a “retreat” so much as a “break” to make a point, to take an upper hand, to be stronger. If it turns out that “what girls really want” is to get all gussied up, pre-party and go to beer bashes at fraternity houses because that’s what they want…well…time will tell. The later is not “being equal” in my opinion. The “former” - staying home - is making a powerful point. Good for the national organizations.
This is a sad story–but what, exactly, do we want this officer to do differently? Certainly, the writer thought the officer’s demeanor and questions were judgmental, and maybe they were. But if he’s had a crime reported to him, he’s got to investigate it. He has to ask her questions about it. Is it inappropriate for him to ask if she’d been drinking? As we know, if she’d been drinking, that might make it more likely for a conviction to be available. Is it inappropriate to ask questions about whether it might have been, or seemed consensual?
On the sorority thing - if all the sorority chapters of a school decided they wanted to take a stand and came to me for advice on how to do it, this is what I’d tell them. Don’t boycott the whole frat system for a weekend. Instead, boycott the one or two houses which had the worst problems for a whole semester. That would get the message across and could be realistically sustained. Also, make sure the non-sorority women were on board too.
Not sure I see a longer lasting total boycott as feasible, and a weekend kinda seems symbolic to me and the guys will shrug it off.
You could convince me pretty easy, PG. For example, if national made a rule: no more frat parties and pledges went in knowing that, A-OK with me. On the other hand, I wouldn’t have liked a rule against the honky-tonk bars, like we had rules against smoking or eating on the street. So, I am seeing different points of view here.
Singling our UVA is interesting to me as well. What is up with that? I would be happier with a nationwide ban. Of course, I’m arguing for closing the fraternities down - even though they aren’t all rapey.
adding: How the rapey frats stay around? That is an excellent question. I have lots of thoughts but not enough time for a reasoned response. Will another sorority woman please respond to this? Thanks in advance.
Well, this is complicated. Especially, since it’s UVA where the fraternity was falsely accused and then cleared. Generally, I’m going to guess that being told they can’t attend parties is not going to sit all that well since they could all decide that for themselves pretty easily without an order. They want to go, though. Heck, some of us don’t even want rules about being naked in bed together. So yeah.
Hunt, don’t treat the victim like she is guilty of anything. Because almost all victims who report to the police are not.
Have a good attitude when talking to the victim. Treat the victim with respect. This girl was attacked and the cop is asking about her behavior. Her behavior. Understand there will probably be brain trauma. The woman was shaking.
This was from Harvest Moon’s post 4829.
This is the attitude…
By the way, there are some cops that do a good job. They are usually more experienced and show empathy and support to the victim.
Singling out UVa for this seems arbitrary and unfair to me . I’d be curious about their rationale for that. I was never in a sorority so not sure how all of this works but I can’t see how focusing only on UVa with their agenda is going to solve a whole lot.
Perhaps the nationals have more information about the recent incident than is being made public. I know most posters think the Jackie story is a done deal, but I am not so sure. I do not think we have heard the end of it yet.
So when, in the course of the investigation, should the girl be asked about her behavior? Because her behavior is relevant to whether there was a crime or not. I agree that officers should be empathetic, and should ask the questions properly.
Regarding the police asking questions…if you get t-boned in an intersection you get asked questions about how fast you were going, what color the light was etc. etc. even if you “feel strongly” that the other guy hit you. I think this whole thing about being asked questions is a horrific experience needs to be set aside. I’m sure there are rude police officers who could use alittle finessing but frankly someone making a charge as offensive as rape against another person can’t possibly think all they have to do is walk in and no questions asked. That’s just naive. So yes, let’s get some training for our police officers so they come off alittle less aggressively, but let’s not kid ourselves and tell young women that their story won’t get questioned - because it will and it should. If the truth is being told the story will hold up.
Fact-finding, getting the details needed is part of the process. Yes, they can accomplish this without seeming to deny her version or accuse her. But just asking the questions isn’t wrong. Let’s remember, as dstark notes, there are cops who do a very good job of this.