I wasn’t talking about fact finding and accuracy. Come on awc…
I am saying the intoxication level is not an excuse so I don’t know why this is an issue.
The guy says she wasn’t drunk enough to be unable to give consent. She was able to give consent.
She said she did not give consent. She said she did not give consent.
You know…he was drinking too. 
It’s an issue because no-one knows what really happened and sometimes that includes the two drunk people who were alone in the room. How in the world can anyone untangle some of this stuff accurately. They can’t.
The above is the correct read. I was describing what I believe are the reasons for these women’s reactions, not speaking for them.
I saw your article link, and my take is that that is but one side of the women’s voice.
I work with many women, are related to many women, and hang out why many women, and none of them come remotely close to believing or seeing themselves like many do on this thread. So, clearly there is not one authentic women’s “voice.”
And the women I know completely do not agree with the victim-blaming mindset; do not believe that they are devoid of personal responsibility when they drink; do not believe that others are somehow automatically responsible for them if they voluntarily decide to get silly drunk; do not understand females who get naked and into bed with a guy and then wonders why sex might be expected to happened; do not understand this meme of not reporting actual rape to the police; and would have no issue literally blowing off (no pun intended) a guy’s manhood if he did try to rape her. I get these women. Women who walk around with matresses as a protest after a questionable encounter and then not getting your way in some proceeding, I do not get.
@awcntbd - and I do not “get” why you are always so focused on the women. Again, this issue is not going to be resolved with that kind of unilateral thinking.
None of them come close, your wife and daughter won’t ever find themselves in that position. We get it.
You’re dealing with many women on this thread, too- and we don;t 100% agree. But there is an issue to tend to.
“Marie, if the only undisputed fact is that both were drunk why not summarily expel them both and then report them to the police department as well if they are underage? We need to set examples if we are to become serious about this issue of the campus rape epidemic.”
Yes, that’s a great idea - that’ll really encourage rape victims to come forth, if they know they will be summarily expelled if there was any drinking.
I have a really dumb question here. I get how a date-rape drug could be slipped into an alcoholic drink. Couldn’t they just as easily be slipped into a non-alcoholic drink, like a soda? Is there something magical about it being placed in an alcoholic drink that makes it work differently? Apologies for the non-chemist in me.
HE changed his mind? Do you mean “she” changed her mind? That is his story also. I can assure you that I read his complaint in its entirety as well as her story.
You might want to read this. Bold items mine.
Maybe he is a heartless liar. Maybe not.
{Quote]If intoxication matters then it matters equally for males and females. Perhaps if the males were not so blasted out of their minds they would make better decisions as well.
[/Quote]
Agreed.
As I stated in my post:
It could also be said that if females were not so blasted out of their minds they would not be going back to guys’ rooms and getting in bed with them when intoxicated and would too make better decisions.
Both parties can have some responsibility in what happens, but many only want the responsibility to be one way. I posit that will not fly with the public as it really makes no sense if men sand women are doing the exact same activity that gets them into that state.
Where did you get this consolation? Do you have a link?
Do you have her story?
I think I can sum up the difference in this type of attitude with the type of attitude that I believe most people have. Nobody thinks that a woman who gets drunk isn’t responsible for their actions. What they are not responsible for are the actions of people around them and how being drunk changes that.
It would be like you wearing a rolex and then me blaming you because you walked downtown in the dark and let me rob you. “well, if you hadn’t been wearing an expensive watch you wouldn’t have been robbed. Sorry, stupid…Your fault”
Now, women who make the decision to have sex and then regret it in the morning certainly bear the responsibility for their actions (up to a point of incapacitation and admittedly that is hard to determine), but that is completely different than many of the issues and cases we have discussed.
“It would be like you wearing a rolex and then me blaming you because you walked downtown in the dark and let me rob you. “well, if you hadn’t been wearing an expensive watch you wouldn’t have been robbed. Sorry, stupid…Your fault””
This is what people hear but it is rarely what is being said. What is usually being said is more like, “Don’t wear your Rolex when you go walking downtown in the dark. Or don’t go walking downtown in the dark if you want to decrease you chances of being robbed.” I don’t really get why this distinction is so hard. And, after the watch is stolen it’s really too late anyway. You are probably not getting it back.
The link has been posted. Here it is again:
I had the feeling you had never read his version.
I read her story in another link above. I think possibly in the Duke newspaper? Not sure. She paints a different picture.
Can I assume someone has posted this article from yesterday’s NYT re: Dartmouth’s decision to ban hard liquor on campus? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/us/in-response-to-student-misconduct-dartmouth-to-ban-hard-liquor-at-parties.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
@HighSchoolDad2 - I am all for colleges cracking down on underage drinking. They have been negligent in enforcing their own policies for way too long. Their refusal to step up has contributed to the deterioration of the social culture on campuses nationwide. But expelling every student who is found to have consumed alcohol is unrealistic - there would be very few students left. Sad but true. And you would be expelling those more responsible drinkers along with those that drink to the point of unconsciousness. I don’t think that is the objective.
I think what Dartmouth is doing is a good start - ban all hard liquor on campus AND enforce that rule. I think a good course of action would be for the universities to petition their state legislatures to reduce the legal drinking age for wine and beer to 18 for those drinking in bars and restaurants (meaning you still could not purchase it on your own in a liquor store.) Then those establishments selling the alcohol could share in the responsibility of cutting kids off according to the Dram Shop laws in their state.
It does not seem that the universities are going to step up so we now have to look elsewhere - those that are profiting from the consumption of alcohol seems like a good place as any to look.
Consolation, Lol.
I read half of that earlier. It felt like a he said she said case so I did not finish reading it. 
I said what you wrote earlier was not the woman’s story.
Then you posted the guy’s story.
I don’t know what happened.
Yeah…she has a different story.
Try telling my wife that 
I understand the point your are trying to make, and agree with it to some extent, but you can’t use such generalities. I don’t drink, and find it challenging at times to be around my drunk friends. But, in all seriousness, plenty of good can come with engaging with a woman who is drunk. It totally depends on the circumstances.
@pizzagirl To answer your earlier question: roofies work the same in any drink from what I understand about chemistry.
So then your position is that sexual assault on college campuses is attributable to women drinking???
Consolation, I read the link. Thanks. I don’t know what happened.