We are also looking at a trip to Spain and Portugal in October. The friends who want to travel with us want to do it by train (with maybe a day trip to wine country in Portugal - I think its on the Douro river?). Any/all suggestions appreciated. Probably only able to do a 2 week trip total, though this isn’t locked in stone.
If you only have two weeks and are confined to train, my advice would be to go to Madrid and use it as the home base and just focus on Spain. From Madrid, you can do day trips or overnights as all the trains basically go through Madrid. There is a high speed train that will get you from Madrid to Seville or to Barcelona, both in 2 1/2 hours. Here’s a map of the train routes:
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Although the train system in Spain and Portugal is far more robust than the American one, it is not nearly as extensive as in some other western European countries. Additionally, there are so many charming towns in Spain that aren’t on the train routes (like most of the white towns). I would at least give some serious thought to renting a car if trying to see a variety of different places in the two countries.
Seville has made it to the list as a favorite city for several of my relatives (and it’s a preferred town for me, too). Porto also has its fans in my family (though Seville was preferred), but none of us grew particularly fond of port. Seeing the Alhambra in Granada (with a tour guide) was lovely. All the Gaudi things in Barcelona are so fun, and the cooking class we took at the Paella Club there was one my favorites from all the different cooking classes we’ve done in various parts of Europe (I think it was the personalities/humor of the hosts). For a small town (and a nice break between Lisbon and Porto), Obidos was a cute stop.
I guess the question is, what is it that interests you and your friends? There’s so much to do and see in these places, that knowing more of your interests can help provide better targeted suggestions.
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Thanks! I should have mentioned, and apologies, that we are focusing on Portugal, with maybe a trip into Spain if time allows. The other couple doesn’t want to drive or fly between locations. Is this going to be a challenges with the high speed train?
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I agree with this. And, we found driving around Spain extremely straight forward. Note that if you are going to drive in Portugal, the toll fees are much higher and more frequent.
Here’s a map of the train routes in Portugal. My family had rented a car in Portugal, so I can’t speak to the efficiencies of the system here. I will say that it looks as though there are only two train routes that will cross the border into Spain, thus limiting the options to go over there (though if I recall correctly, there are buses available for travel as well).
You will miss many of the beautiful coastal towns in Portugal if you are restricted by rail.
But, you can get to Sintra by train from Lisbon which IMO, is a must! Make time to not just go to the palace, but to walk the old wall, and to go to the Initiation Well.
Porto is also a must (and easy by rail from Lisbon) and once you are there you can do a cruise to the Douro Valley. We had a blast visiting the port houses in Porto (big and small) and the vineyards in the Douro Valley. If you are into wine, I’d recommend doing a wine tour.
One of the best meals of my life was outside of Porto at Casa de Chá da Boa Nova. You will need to take an uber/taxi but phenomenal seafood right on the coast.
Also would recommend Alma in Lisbon.
I will say, of our three week, multi city tour, Lisbon was my least favorite.
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We visited Lisbon and Porto in October of 2023. We flew to Porto from London and stayed there for 5 days. We did a bus/cruise with wine tasing in the Douro Valley. We loved Porto and averaged 15K steps a day there with all of the hills.
We took the train from Porto to Lisbon and spent another 5 days there. We also loved Lisbon. The first day there we did a walking tour of the old city which was a half day and was really great. We stayed in a hotel called Dare Lisbon House which was wonderful. Our room had a kitchen which they kept stocked with coffee, tea, fruit and eggs. Each morning they would leave fresh pastries in a bag on our door. When we returned in the afternoon they had complimentary wine/beer in the lobby. The staff was so nice as was the hotel.
We did not see the coastal towns of Portugal on this trip, but plan to do that for another one.
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Thanks everyone!! Will digest this and share with my friends and come back wit a gazillion more questions!
I’ve never been to Portugal. I’ve been learning Spanish so that’s what I wanted to practice speaking. I’m also just more interested in Spanish history, art and architecture. I can only speak about Spain, but we found the trains easy to navigate. We rented a car for some parts of our trip and found the highways easy, but Google maps sent us on streets that were too small for our car in Seville. (Which was midsize not big!) We did figure out how to get the local GPS working and in English and that was much better. I’m sure Portugal is great too.
Went to Portugal last year. Studied the Rick Steves book. Rented a car (roads are great in Portugal…a little tight when you enter a town). Followed the suggested Rick Steves 16 day tour and drove all over Portugal (very little traffic outside of the cities). It was an amazing trip with great food and sights. Enjoy!
Edit: we paid extra for a built-in navigation system and made sure to get a smaller sedan. We had no issues…but I did “study” a lot prior…and memorized road signs. It’s very doable if you put some effort in. Use an Amex card for insurance (had to use it once in Greece for a minor fender bender and it was easy).
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We did a 12 day Rick Steves trip to Portugal in 2019. Great trip, we loved it! Started in Lisbon and ended up in Porto. Sintra was not on the itinerary, but many people did that as a side trip. Obviously we missed the memo, since apparently it is quite a place. Obidos was an interesting medieval town, and really everything on their tour was great. You might look at the Rick Steves itinerary, as they tend to choose the most people pleasing things. The best trip was to a winery and a cork farm in the Douro valley.
One thing I thought I’d like to do if we went back, is go on a Douro River cruise, maybe on Scenic, AMA, Avalon or Uniworld. I’m all about avoiding stress on vacations!
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If you go to Porto I would stay on the seaside rather than the old town. There are nicer hotels on the seaside with nice shopping. I would then Uber to the old town for sightseeing. There is a train (old) service along the Douro river. There are some lovely towns and wineries along the way. I think Lisbon is worth 3 days. It’s a small city, but with a lot of good sightseeing outside of the city. This is a hotel I like at Lisbon, Avenida Palace. It’s by the central train station and close to everything.
We are going back to Portugal again this June. We will be staying at southern part of Portugal on a seaside hotel.
My family did a vacation at a northern part of Spain, close to France. There were some interesting wineries.
When we go to Spain or Portugal we usually drive. With GPS it is very easy and it’s quite safe.
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More of our notes from Porto:
We stayed at the Hilton on the Gaia side and loved it. Beautiful views of Porto across the river and we really enjoyed visiting the port houses and the restaurants on the Gaia side.
Visit Vasques De Carvalho port house - it’s one of the smallest port houses, still Portuguese owned, and it was a great contrast to the larger houses and the port was outstanding.
We also went to Cockburn, which is the largest port house, owned by the Brits. Totally different feel and it was really interesting hearing the history from both perspectives.
We had a lovely dinner, along side peacocks, at Taylor on their roof patio overlooking Porto. Time dinner with sunset!
Stay away from the tourist trap restaurants that are along the river. They are terrible. Like terrible terrible. We were starving the first night we arrived and didn’t have reservations so just went for it and all the fish tasted frozen and we ordered three different dishes that tasted exactly the same.
Everyone told us to go to the bookstore Livaria Lello. I’m sure it would have been beautiful if it wasn’t jammed packed with people. You have to buy tickets in advance but it was still a long wait and a mob scene. We went first thing in the morning thinking that would be better but it was still wall to wall people. I would skip it and just look at the pictures on line.
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Just make sure you get the pronunciation right…
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We bought tickets in advance for the bookstore and went early in the morning. I love bookstores and enjoyed it even though it was crowded.
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Much more crowded when we were there!
We were in Porto in October and did not think it was too crowded then.
It was much more crowded last year when we visited, too (in the summer). But I’m still glad we went. It had some Little Prince/Antoine de Saint-Exupery stuff that I hadn’t come across, and if anyone’s interested in foreign languages, they had popular books in various translations.
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We will be a on a cruise later this year, with stops in Porto and Lisbon. We are in Lisbon for two days and one day in Porto. What would folks recommend as must-dos given that we have such a short time there?
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