It is my understanding that there are lots of issues with FIRE’s methodology. https://www.chronicle.com/article/harvard-last-in-free-speech-dont-trust-fires-rankings
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We cannot read the article without subscribing.
If one does not trust FIRE and wants to see how much a school supports free speech and open inquiry they can get a good idea with a couple internet searches. What is the university’s speech code? Does the university pledge to defend free speech (The Chicago Letter)? Have speakers been uninvited at the insistence of activists? Have students, faculty or outside activists shouted down or disrupted guest speakers or public debates? Do protests regress into acts of intimidation, property destruction, or even assault?
There is a free Chronicle subscription that allows one to read 4 or 5 articles per month.
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You can subscribe without needing to pay or put the url into an AI search.
Crossposted!!
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Although I’ve heard both of these scenarios alluded to broadly, I’ve never heard of a specific, verified instance of either.
[Edited to remove off-topic addendum]
Please people - keep to the OP, this is not a discussion of colleges in general, but whether the OP is right in their considerations about Smith college.
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Back to Smith specifically… if you want a school where your student will be exposed to a wider range of ideas, values and beliefs then I would not recommend Smith or many other “elite” LACs.
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I would defer to the opinion of those like @Tana98, with direct experience with the college, than to stereotype, judgment or overgeneralization about “elite LAC’s”.
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Oops duplicate post.
I’m another person here who has worked hard not to comment on this thread, but I do feel a need to point out that there is a VAST gulf between avoiding a school because one assumes that the student body leans a certain way politically and avoiding a school because the school, as an institution, actively aims to impose a specific worldview or set of behaviors on its students (as does Liberty). And there’s yet another gulf between either of those and avoiding sending kids to states where the literal power of the government is being brought to bear to harm them and people like them (and in some cases, dictate what they are and are not allowed to learn at state universities).
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89% of those enrolled do end up staying, so those who decide to attend generally like it.
It may be harder to ascertain the reasons for the other 11%
I do too.
Would you and the others suggest that Hillsdale is not the kind of college that lends itself to fostering the type of intellectual growth that you think a college should foster – and especially for $85-$90K/year.
I never take that view. I assume the kids at Hillsdale receive a great education and do experience intellectual growth.
There’s no doubt that Smith is a liberal place, and there’s no doubt that Hillsdale is a conservative place.
Maybe the OP should read the thread on M. Roth’s OpEd to the NYTs about the idea of pushing yourself to attend someplace at which you don’t fit like a glove. There’s that concern.
But any notion that you’re going to receive a sub-par education and have your intellectual growth stunted at Smith College is just ridiculous. Just for starters, they have stellar STEM opportunities and a math faculty that can go toe to toe with any LAC.
But the OP used the term “echo chamber”, which usually indicates a POV that, in my experience, would make them unhappy at Smith. Whether that translates to the student who would actually attend is something only the OP can answer.
As to where Smith graduates go besides grad school (and I’m guessing many do just that) and teaching, it seems the top hiring companies (according to Smith) are Bank of America, Boston Children’s Hospital, Brigham and Women’s Hospital, EF Education First, Epic, Goldman Sachs, Google, Massachusetts General Hospital, and Microsoft. I found another list somewhere else that tracked this list somewhat, but I can’t find it now.
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Some want a niche school ( including womens colleges, military schools, or tech academies), some don’t. The population at Smith, VMI, and Caltech, is all self-selected in a certain manner. One can get a good education almost anywhere; the question is whether one wishes to self-select into that group for college and the experience that results.
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And some would say that state schools are also self-selective in that the overwhelming majority of most of those schools are attended by in-state students. Neither of my kids applied to the state flagship - they called it 13th grade.
At some state flagships many if not most students are from out of state.
Some states also have such large and diverse populations that the geographical limit isnt particularly limiting.
Data? Other than flagships like UA and Tulsa that buy students with big NM scholarships, it is highly unlikely that “many if not most students are from OOS" at many flagship state U’s.
There are some state Us that are known to attract out of staters not lured by big $$$ (U MD comes to mind) but most Flagship Us are full of instate kids.
Yes, “some”, not “many” flagships have a very large OOS population. But not majority.
And as I said, sure a handful may have many OOS students, but the large majority of State flagships are populated largely by instate students. This isn’t a debate, nor should it be. When one makes a claim they should provide the data, nor expect others to go hunting for it.
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Re-read my post carefully. I never said OOS populations were large at most flagships; I said at some flagships, a plurality ( and sometimes a majority) are OOS. U Michigan, in addition to the schools you mentioned.
Google would reveal others. Google is very useful with this actual data:VT, ME, MI, MS,WI, NH, DE, AL, AR, RI, ND, CO, OR, OK.
Please take the OT conversation about large flagships to PM. Further posts will be deleted without comment. Thank you.
Perfectly said. When you look at reviews of Smith, some people are put off by how political and conformist Smith is.
But if you don’t mind (either because you agree or because you are apolitical), then it doesn’t matter.
The daughter needs understand the situation and asked if she will mind.