My brother is notorious being late for our get togethers. Few weeks ago he invited me out to dinner. It was pouring out. I took a subway knowing it would be impossible to get a taxi/uber and it would also take forever. I got to the place on time. My brother refused to take a subway and insisted on taking an uber. He claimed few ubers cancelled on him and there was an accident on the road. I sat at his club (all male) for an hour waiting for him. I wasn’t happy, but I let it roll off my back so not to ruin the evening.
Yesterday he asked me if I wanted to have a drink with him (and maybe his wife, but it wasn’t clear to me) after work. We decided to meet at 6pm around their NYC apartment (he lives in CA, but is in NYC one week a month). Again, it was raining. I left my apartment around 5:45. At 5:50 as I was walking to the rooftop bar, I got a text from him to say he was about to get into a cab from downtown to meet me. The ride from downtown to our meeting place is usually 15-20 min, but during the rush hour and raining it could easily be 45 to 60 min. I tried to get in touch with his wife to see if she was coming because I would still go even if my brother was going to be late, but I didn’t hear back from her until 6pm. At that point I was already home(the place was walking distance between our apartments). I texted them to say we should just skip it because I was tired and I needed something to eat (they had a dinner plan), but they texted me to let me know my sister-in-law was at the bar.
Today, my brother texted me to say I owed him and his wife an apology, and I should try not to be so rigid with my time. He thought I was disrespectful to his wife for not showing up. I actually think he owes me an apology, not the other way around.
I have a huge pet peeve about tardiness. IMO your brother is way out of line.
Where it gets grayer to me is with your sil. If it was a 15 minutes walk, I probably would have turned around and gone back out to meet with her. That said, I would have been ticked about waiting for an hour the previous time and would be guarding against a repeat of that.
So, maybe I’d apologize to the sil but your brother definitely owes you an apology too since there was no way he was going to be on time and if he frequents NYC, he knew that.
I just find people who are chronically late to be sending the message that their time is more valuable than mine. I HATE that!
I wouldn’t focus on the apologies but on both being very frank about expectations when you meet. Set some parameters. Tell him that 6pm means 6 pm to you and you intend to be there on time. Or that you will text him 30 minutes before you are suppose to meet to be sure what time he’ll be there. Or he has to text you when he’s actually leaving - something!
Apologies are a temporary fix - you guys need a long term plan based on both of your needs/habits.
Agree with @momofsenior1. It sounds like the SIL got back to you within 10 minutes which seems reasonable.
I have a relative who is always late. I don’t make plans with her that involve just her. If there are other people coming, then I will say yes.
And I’m better than I used to be, I’m a bit more chill about tardiness. It used to make be very anxious, now I make my own allowances for their lateness
He was putting it on you because his wife was sitting at the bar waiting for him and you weren’t there to hide him being late. If he was being clear with the invite and you knew you wouldn’t be waiting for an hour by himself, this would have turned out differently.
Instead your brother was being vague about what the plan was and was clearly going to be late. And you got thrown under the bus.
That’s only my opinion of the situation. (From someone who recently got thrown under the bus for something I didn’t create and wasn’t responsible for)
I’m spontaneous and usually unscheduled in my personal life (and make a point not to pack in many social events because it exhausts me) but when I do make plan with someone I take punctuality seriously. I hate it when people are late for trivial reasons (especially without letting me know while its happening) and I agree with @momofsenior1 that it means that the person is not valuing your time/life/convenience as much as his/her own.
Even if the person denies this, if it’s habitual, the reality is they did not prioritize you enough to think through the situation or to care how their lateness affects you. Your brother knows his own work schedule and spends enough time in NY to understand the traffic variations. Seems to me he could have thought through the situation to plan to meet you at 6:45 or 7 (so what if he unexpectedly arrived home earlier! … can he not relax at home comfortably for awhile instead of putting you in the position of waiting in a bar alone?) or, he could have made sure his wife could be at the bar at 6 and communicated that to you. If neither he nor his wife could get there on time, he owes you an apology for not even calling you to say so. I’d think they would bend over backwards to take you to the bar or dinner of your choice after that, and if you chose to stay home, that’s on them.
Your brother failed to do any of that, and expects you to absorb the inconvenience of his poor planning and implies you’re rude for not doing so silently.
Sounds like you’ll have to be a step ahead of him. Maybe next time he wants to make a plan, agree only to something you can be comfortable with on your own terms…maybe let him know ahead of time he or his wife will will have to arrive by a certain time or you’ll have to leave.
I hate being late and am really annoyed when people are late to things where time matters. And your examples are among them. Being late to a public place, where the person you are meeting is alone or taking up space or looking like a fool or being approached by strangers is not okay. This is very different from saying you’ll be at someone’s house and making them wait for you, in the comfort of their home. Both are rude, but the former is much worse for the person who is on time.
I’m a little confused. You say you were to meet at 6 but were already home at 6, not even giving the SIL or brother much notice that you were “tired” and had gone home. I get you were upset about past behavior but it seems like you might owe them an apology on this latest thing? It is always nice that adult siblings make efforts to get together Sadly, many do not. Hope you and your brother have more successful meetings going forward.
So Im like always early. As stated hate being late. My wife, not so much. She’s really bad on estimating how long it will take even with using Google maps.
Think maybe talk to your brother and as stated let him know that whatever time he states that is the time you will show up.
One good way I think mentioned is just ask him “tell me when your actually leaving, I have a few things to do before”. This might be better and you’ll know how much time to allow.
One thing I like to remember. That when someone is chronically late, it’s not something they are doing to ME. They are not doing this because they don’t value ME. It has nothing to do with ME but everything to do with THEM. They are late for everyone and everything. I think that they don’t think that highly about me but that there is something internal that causes them to never be on time for anyone.
I have a relative who flakes on everything. Her life is complete chaos and they can’t get anything accomplished in a timely manner. She seems to be ok with this, I would be a wreck.
And I do wonder if chronic lateness has something to do with ADD.
You’re not crazy @oldfort. It sounds like you had enough of dealing with your brother and checked out. We all have those days.
I left my apartment at 5:40, half way to the place I received a text from my brother that he was just leaving from downtown. I then tried to reach my SIL to see if she was going. When I couldn’t reach her I decided to turn around to go home. By the time she texted me back I was already home. The place was around the block from her and about 15 min from me. Nevertheless, she and my brother had a dinner plan, so she wasn’t coming out just for me (I found out later). The idea of sitting at a bar for 45+ min by myself was not appealing to me.
@deb922 punctuality is a part of executive function and people with ADD/ADHD can have issues with executive function. My son has ADHD and knows this. He has created a coping skill to almost always be a half hour early. His dad, on the other hand, also has ADHD and is usually late.
S sees how H’s tardiness affects me and the rest of the family, so he compensates. H just recently decided he cares and has worked to be on time. It is still a struggle for him, though he sees that S can do it with more severe ADHD issues, so he has decided if S can be on time then so can he.
I think there is a spot in the middle here. Perhaps you are a tad too rigid but I don’t blame you as you’ve been burned by him too many times it seems. I don’t mind people being a little late - 15 to 20 minutes. 45 minutes to an hour is just rude, though.