I was going to ask- is your brother on time for work meetings, does he arrive at the airport in time to make flights, cruises, etc? If so, then he has the capacity to be on time, but places a lower priority on friends/ relatives by making them wait.
IMO you are kind if you tell SIL you are sorry she was disappointed, but it’s even more annoying (IMO) that your brother called you to dress you down, especially without acknowledging his behavior when you finally had enough. If he had apologized for his tardiness, it would have been reasonable for you to say you are sorry your sister was disappointed, but I would not own being “rigid” about your being on time. That’s simple courtesy. He needs to learn that.
I don’t think you’re being too rigid, but maybe that’s because I’m pretty rigid. I’m ALWAYS on time and known for it. It’s one of the few things I’m really good at. For those I know to be habitually late, I set boundaries when we are making plans so everything is understood upfront.
For instance, I might tell them to text when they are actually out the door and on their way, X minutes away, stuck in traffic, or whatever the circumstances dictate for that person and situation so I know when to leave, arrive, etc. rather than just leaving it to chance and then end up being irritated. That works out pretty well most of the time. Sometimes I may tell someone I will wait to leave (or even wait before starting to get ready) until I hear from them.
No one has been offended yet, but I’m nice about it. I try to come across in a way that indicates I’m just trying to make things go smoothly. If they balk, I tell them it would really help me out and that’s usually enough.
Be on time (early).
Do what you say you’re going to do (which includes being on time)
Just doing these two things gives you credibility. I try to explain that to my D the artist. She just isn’t wired that way. Not going to change. Easy for me to think she’s a “flake” but it really is a personality trait more than anything.
My biggest issue with it is she knows it bothers me (and I’m the one driving her somewhere), so you would think she would get it right for that reason alone, but not the case. Occasionally I just refuse to take her somewhere to teach her but it doesn’t have the desired effect.
So with her I choose my battles. With others I have less tolerance,
I think you are mostly in the right. That said, you aren’t going to change your brother so what’s the plan going forward? We had one cousin who used to always arrive 1/2 an hour or more late to parties. (When the kids were small and parties actually started on time.) We finally started inviting her half an hour early. I think asking your brother to text when he’s actually leaving is a workable solution. Meeting at your apartment is also viable. He may have other ideas. Sitting alone in a restaurant for 45 minutes is not a reasonable expectation.
I have a BIL and SIL who are nightmares in the “late” department. They live a plane ride away, so thankfully I don’t deal with them often.
It wasn’t even Thanksgiving and their daughter had over 30 tardies from the private parochial school she attended (no, there were no consequences). One year our hostess held up Christmas dinner because they arrived 2.5 hours late.
It goes on and on and on. DH wanted to take a vacation to Disney together because our daughters are about the same age. I said, “Absolutely not!” Dinsey only seats you when everyone in your party is present, and I actually want to sit down for dinner at my reserved time. I don’t want to lose my FastPass privileges because they can’t get their butts organized. Had we taken that trip I guarantee we wouldn’t have come out on speaking terms.
They never changed, so I changed myself.
When they arrived two hours late for a BBQ, I welcomed them warmly, handed them a plate of raw chicken, and pointed them to the grill. The rest of the guests had already finished dessert.
I had them over for dinner a few times. All the other guests were seated and eating when they arrived. Each time I welcomed them to the leftovers in the buffet I had set out.
The rest of DH’s family took notice and actually started doing the same thing, which is to say get started on time with whatever we were supposed to be doing. The late couple never changed their habit, but the rest of the family, though mildly annoyed about it at times, no longer spends family gatherings heavily stressed, bored, and starving.
Know something? Like much in life, backstory matters. If there’s been history building up to this, you decide what you want.
But i wouldn’t plan anything precise in NYC, after work, when one’s coming from downtown, with the massive traffic. It’s just too fraught with uncertainty.
So, to SIL, “Sorry our wires got crossed, it would have been nice.” (It happens. Stick to that.)
But next time, remember ‘fore-warned is fore-armed.’ You aren’t responsible for his actions. You know he’s not punctual. Don’t count on it, when making plans. That’s all you can control. “Call me when you’re ten minutes away- and if it’s not so late that I’m tired, I’ll meet you.” No promises he can’t match.
I met D2 today at Bryant Park today for drinks at 2 (to meet her new puppy). She arrived 10 min early, I was right on time, and her BF was 10 late. All good and expected in NYC.
When we went on a vacation in Asia, I booked a mini bus with a tour guide. We agreed if you were late you were responsible to get yourself to the next destination, the bus was not waiting. My brother’s family was on time (I think the SIL was instrumental).
I think I am going to start to ask my brother, “text me when you are leaving.” You guys are right, I am not going to change him. It made me feel better to vent here.
My (un) favorite story is the one time I decided to meet the later party for dinner. We lived 2 hours apart and decided to meet in the middle. We get there at the appointed hour and they called and were just leaving. We waited an hour and a half. The excuse, she got a new bike and had to take it for a ride! Never again.
We once travelled 2.5 hours on Christmas Day to my in laws. They live 3 blocks away. Mil decided to wait for them before eating and having my small children open presents. We waited 3 hours past the time for Christmas dinner. The excuse, they needed to take a nap. No call, no nothing. 3 hours with hungry crying children. It was great.
It so rude. I don’t make plans and I don’t wait anymore.
But they do this to everyone, I wonder how people like this have friends
My extended family tends to be late. I’m on time or early and feel habitual lateness is just rude.
With someone like your brother, I’d ask him to text me xx minutes before he arrives or meet at your place. I do not enjoy bars and sitting alone waiting at one for an hour would not be ok with me.
As my son said in his wedding rehearsal email, on time is late, early is on time. (Which worked out for the compliant ones, as the elevator failed and the latecomers ended up having to walk up 18 floors.) Would that similar consequences might be imposed on habitual latecomers…
Family tends to be like “herding cats”, especially with larger groups.
When we get these giant text messages going, who is going to scroll back to check the time for something? Or does someone have to be the den mother and remind everyone constantly? There seem to always be communication difficulties.
Wouldn’t the subway be a more predictable (in terms of departure and arrival time) way of getting around NYC. Of course, in the OP’s story, she uses the subway, but the tardy brother refuses to.
My husband is late for everything, all the time- he was even late for our wedding- so this is a sore spot for me. He very much just doesn’t like waiting (for other people, at the airport, at appointments), so instead he makes the world wait for him. As much as it makes me crazy, I know it’s not limited to me. He’s missed car shares, airplanes, our kids competitions and performances- he’s even late for work most days, and he’s in the military. He very much is a “I do things on my time” guy, and I find it incredibly frustrating and disrespectful. So, long story short? I don’t think you’re too rigid at all.
Apologies for length, but I have a bit of hopeful news. One significant person in my life (my husband) changed his pattern of arriving “just in time” or perhaps late for events.
For decades, he simply would not build in any extra time to get to an event – would prefer to use his time before the event focused on his own other agendas.
I used to be the one, at a school performance of one of our kids, holding a seat for him in the auditorium and he would typically walk down the aisle just as the curtain came up. (I came from home and he came from work.) He just made it but I was the one who came early and held a seat and enabled him.
Once we were invited to an out of town significant birthday dinner cruise and came very close to missing the boat, which was NOT going to wait for anyone who was not there on time. It was very stressful. We were traveling from a distance and hit bad traffic (so not his fault but have to build in buffer time for that possibility) and we had not left extra time. We had planned to check into a nearby hotel before the dinner cruise and had to rush directly to the boat instead and I had to change into my dressy outfit in the car as he was driving. Made it to the dock within a minute or two of the boat taking off.
I told H that being early was a price I was happy to pay to eliminate possibly being late. But if he were running late it undermined that approach and made things stressful for me.
What cured him? One event in which he witnessed someone else being inconsiderate re being on time and the consequences for others.
We attended the out-of-town wedding of the son of my very good friend (college roommate and maid of honor at our wedding). This friend’s sister (the groom’s aunt) had been designated to do a reading at a point near the middle (not early) in the ceremony (formal Catholic mass with lots of music so not a short ceremony). Time for the reading came and the priest called the aunt’s name to come up to the lectern and she was not in the church. My good friend, seated in the pew in front of me, turned to me and asked me to step up and fill in. Of course I had no prep or copy of the reading but I had to comply. Went up, located the reading material on the lectern, and I did it and my filling in was much appreciated by the family.
Turns out the aunt (who had been at the rehearsal the evening before) had been staying at a very local hotel with her husband and they simply took their time getting going the morning of the wedding – and made it to the church near the end of the ceremony.
THAT one incident demonstrated to my H how being casual about being on time is self-centered and inconveniences others. From that time forward it was NEVER again an issue for us. I taught him to allow “buffer time” to get places when promptness matters. He now consistently builds in extra time (and asks me if I think the buffer time is sufficient) and is often ready to leave before I am. It has made a huge difference in our lives and eliminated a lot of stress.
So sometimes people can learn and change, if they finally see it from another perspective.
But it is the OP’s brother’s wife who has the best odds of helping that happen. (IMO)
A good friend of ours sets all her clocks, watches, phones, 30 minutes ahead. She knows she "needs "that cushion. She’s never late for work stuff but still late when we go out with them socially… But we know that and build it in to our time to meet her.
LOL.
@ucbalumnus in general in midtown Manhattan during the week, the subway is reliable, predictable, and usually well-air conditioned in the summer. But not always. C.f., yesterday’s blackout, plus there are usually big changes in the schedule on weekends and after 10 p.m. weeknights to accommodate maintenance work that can make subway travel much less predictable.
At DDs college graduation, I made it very clear that I had the vehicle transporting us…and I would be leaving without folks who weren’t in it at my appointed time. My SIL was in charge of making sure my MIL was on time. They came within a minute of being left behind. And NO, I would not have waited.
My DH used to be a little close in times…but he has changed that…because I’m an early bird…and he just had to. I flatly refuse to cut it so close that I might miss a plane flight, the start of an event, or a dinner reservation time.
My brother is a very generous and well meaning person, so I do not want to paint him as an awful person, but he is a prince. He will not take public transportation, even knowing it would be the best option on a raining day during rush hour in NYC. He would rather keep me (and others) waiting.
I love Google Map. I would go on it to see how long it would take me from point A to B via walking, public transportation and Uber. Few weekends ago I was meeting my kids in Brooklyn to pick up a rental car to go out to NJ. Google map said to take #4 from 42nd, and me being creative decided to take #6 from 33rd then transfer at 14th. After I got all the way down to to the platform it showed there was no local from the station. By then I was running behind, so I paid $25 to uber it out to Brooklyn instead of keeping my kids waiting.
I also get nervous when I have a flight to catch. I would rather be early and sit in a lounge rather than to worry about the security line.
For those I know to be habitually late, I set boundaries when we are making plans so everything is understood upfront.