Am I wrong to feel upset?

College Majors Musical Theater Majors
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<p>Ditto to those who say that this is a great place to express and vent and a perfect opportunity to share a point from a recent conversation with a teacher from a college MT program.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this generation of young people have been brought up in an era where fairness was tought to be a reality. It begins in preschool where we teach our children to share and teachers give little awards and treats to everyone…prettiest eyes, best laugh, etc. etc. We then get into “pay to play” sports and community theatre camps where everyone is required by the league to play X amount of minutes or innings. This creates an unrealistic reality that competition is about everyone getting a fair chance.</p>

<p>Even at the High School level there are parents that believe that for good sportsmanship it is best for everyone to have a chance even if they cannot throw the ball or sing a note.</p>

<p>This, the MT teacher states is the biggest disservice that we have done to our young people, as they have no clue what true competition is all about and how brutal it can be in the real world.</p>

<p>We as MT parents have seen it, lived it, breathed it with our kids, but there are many that have no idea that it is not a process that requires anyone to spread out the opportunities.</p>

<p>Once again, thanks to all that share their wisdom here. It is an invaluable tool to all of us</p>

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<p>I don’t really mind what the casting philosophy is, just be consistent with it. Seniority? Fine! Most improved? Fine! Least likely to be cast in a lead role after high school? Fine! Best audition? Fine! Biggest pain for a mother? Fine! Whatever, just use the same philosophy from show to show, year to year!</p>

<p>Obviously, I’m being a bit facetious, but you get my point.</p>

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<p>Here, here, britbrat! At least in athletics, the “everyone gets to play X number of minutes and gets a trophy” attitude typically disappears by high school. Why? Because the coach wants to win and to do so needs to field the best team. I agree with amtc, however, that at least consistency in casting philosophy should be a given in high school. A director shouldn’t cast based on merit one year, then “change the rules,” casting based on seniority or other favoritism the next. (Love the “Least likely to be cast in a lead role after high school” category!)</p>

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<p>Very interesting thread. Having been on the casting side multiple times, and also being a mom of a performer, I can really see both sides. Snoggie, I’m wondering: are you concerned about your D having dropped out of ensemble in one production in order to do a lead in another? It’s quite possible that the directors of the first show won’t forget that. I wouldn’t. In the future, if the choice is between your D and someone else, I would question whether your D will truly make the commitment. I hope that hasn’t been her habit. I can think back a few years when we had one truly talented boy who did a similar thing (multiple times), and one of our (very prominent) directors told me “I wouldn’t cast that kid if he were the only one to show up at the audition!” So, I do hope bridges have not been burned. (Of course, that kid later ended up touring w/ a bus and truck Broadway show, and much more, so I suppose no harm was done…)</p>

<p>That said, I also had the experience of a young lady doing something similar–dropping her commitment to a dress rehearsal so that she could go to “an important professional audition.” I had a very long talk with her regarding follow-through and loyalty/commitment and I urged her to think carefully about her actions in the future lest she get a reputation of being unreliable, and begin to be overlooked in casting. She took my words very carefully to heart, and she did end up being very clear about her commitments, and became exceedingly reliable in future years. </p>

<p>I do completely understand the need for participation in a show or whatever to be “worth the students’ time” and I agree that students and parents need to make choices to make sure that each experience is a positive learning experience for the kid. We’ve tried to avoid those situations where the only thing a kid is learning is what NOT to do when he or she becomes the director! Students need the best possible directors, whether it is community theater, performing arts HS, the church musical or wherever.</p>

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<p>sopranomom92… I asked my d to check my info and she reminded me of a few things… she auditioned for Footloose first and had told both directors about both auditions. When she had told Seussical director about the Footloose audition, that was when the director told her she would get either Gertrude or one of the trio. Then she cast her as ensemble and had the first readthrough within a day or two. My D was then offered Vi the day of the readthrough. She had not yet accepted either role, and when she told the Seussical Director (whom she had not yet accepted) about Vi, the director was rude to her and even though my D had already decided to go for Vi, that cemented it. She still felt guilty, because that is the way she is, even though no commitment had been made. She was also feeling badly because her younger brother was in the Seussical production… I was there with him watching this from far away. I could see their faces, but she never told me what was said. (She said she remembers that I would have gotten upset…she can’t recall the comments now.) She may have burned some bridges, but so has the director. My D will never audition for anything directed by this woman. (I really wonder what she said to my D!) It has not prevented my D from being in other productions so far… and she has never left a production in which she has been cast and she has accepted. She has always received comments on her commitment, dedication and team work on shows.</p>

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<p>Sounds like your D is a great kid and knows exactly how to handle things–full disclosure, timely information to the directors. No director should be rude–I hope her brother has (or had) a good experience, and no doubt it was and will continue to be that director’s loss. Some people just aren’t worth putting up with (meaning the director, not your D, of course)!</p>

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<p>Thanks, My D is a good kid. It seems that so many of the kids who are a part of this forum (or whose parents are) are good kids! And this whole ridiculous situation was about 4 years ago, so my son has been there and done that! After being in school productions of Crazy for You and Les Mis, and many years of Marching Band, he was finished with performance and hasn’t pursued it in college.</p>

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<p>I agree that situations like these teach our kids valuable lessons. Inspiredbymusic, I think it was really inappropriate for that woman to tell your daughter she had the “perfect part” when she did not yet know for sure who was auditioning. Instead she should have said something like, “We would love to have someone like you in our camp; we’ll have a lot of fun and put on a great show!” I think that woman was trying to get your daughter to choose her camp over the others. There is a great line about parents of child performers in “The Turning Point” – something like, “You give them hope, they’ll give you money!” Next year your daughter may go in with her eyes a little more open, and not choose that same camp again if it is run by the same woman.</p>

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<p>Calliene,
I agree with every word you said. Thanks so much for understanding!
The other factor that is unfortunate about this situation is that this woman is my daughter’s favorite teacher and she will be working with her a ton over the next four years as long as my daughter stays at this school (which she loves) and stays involved in studying voice and musical theater.
I guess I will give this woman the benefit of a doubt and assume that she meant well when she made the “perfect part” comment, but in the future I will pay 0 attention to any such comments made by her or anyone else and I will advise my daughter to do the same.
Anyway, thanks again for understanding. It makes me feel better.</p>

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<p>Can I ask a general question out of this? </p>

<p>My D’s theater coach gave her good advice to do as many auditions as she can these next few months. They are great experience. My D asked, what if I get offered parts in more than one show, though? How do I handle that? The coach said to be prompt, honest, and considerate to the director you are declining a part from. Usually they will understand that 1) people have to audition like they won’t get anything, so they will audition for concurrent productions; and 2) you’re going to want the best part or the best experience for you, and deserve it as a young performer. All she said was DO IT RIGHT, and they should understand, and, frankly, be used to it.</p>

<p>As for having auditions for the next thing when rehearsing for the current one, that has to happen a lot, in order to stay consistently involved, or later, employed. Yes, some situations are non-negotiable (like dress rehearsal), but isn’t it possible to deal appropriately with these situations without burning bridges? Aside from projecting the attitude of “this is the most important thing I’ve ever wanted” at the audition (as one would with a job interview), do you have to ACTUALLY not have anything else going on in your life?</p>

<p>She also said that it depends on your goals. Right now my D is trying to build a resume. It’s obvious to anyone that she’s trying to get experience and to prepare for college admission auditions. It should be understandable that she’s going to spread herself around as much as she can. Anyway, she’s not so great that she’s leaving a trail of anger and frustration behind her - a couple of lines in a play is a huge success.</p>

<p>Another girl in our area who is a college grad is, on the other hand, trying to get work in this theater community. She’s being much more thoughtful, being a “good sport” and taking whatever she can get, plus being careful not to turn anyone down or anger anyone, because she wants to live here. That, the theater coach says, is a totally different situation.</p>

<p>My D was lucky to get one good-sized part this summer in another town, and the director she works with at our HS and in summer shows is being very patient and generous by letting her be in the ensemble of the local stuff, and working around her schedule. She must not have any hard feelings, since she did cast her, and also gave her a good part in the fall musical already. </p>

<p>It will be a big learning experience for my D making sure she makes all of her scheduling decisions very carefully, is very polite when asking for absences, etc. She has made full disclosure in all of this, and people have been nice. I’m hoping it will teach her how to juggle properly, when the time comes when she’s dealing with higher stakes and less flexible people.</p>

<p>Are there red flags we’re not understanding in all of this? Is there anything we should know, besides the general advice to be honest and considerate? It sounded like there are some absolute no-no’s, but maybe we might miss them. As I said, I don’t think this is her long-term theater “home,” but no one wants to be the kid who did the wrong thing that everyone remembers forever.</p>

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<p>EmmyBet…this is just my opionion for what it is worth. Building a good resume is a part of the process, but at the end of the day when it comes to college auditions, it is how a candidate presents and conducts themselves in the very few minutes that they are seen at the audition.</p>

<p>Indeed the resume and the academic transcript is looked at, but if the candidate shows real potential and well rounded in areas of academics, voice, dance, acting and ability to follow direction, it will overshadow any resume. Experience is great, but the college MT programs are designed to teach and the competition for parts in college is far tougher than on the JH and HS level. I have heard directors of college MT programs say that if a student has done everything and been in everything that they don’t need the program as they might feel that they have nothing to learn or should be cast in those shows that they have already done being that they know the script. Some programs will tell you to forget everything that you have learned and learn the way that they teach.</p>

<p>My point here is that I have seen students stretching themselves so thin trying so hard to build a stellar arts resume while their grades suffer or they take only the minimum academics. This also can have a bearing on how much community service that they can do (which can have a huge impact of scholarship opportunities as community theate is not always looked at as community service)which is important as well.</p>

<p>One of the reasons to build a solid dependable reputation is that the student will likely need or want letters of recommendation for directors when applying to MT programs for college. The ability to juggle a schedule is recognized not only in college but in real life as one has to be able to do many things with very long hours and sometimes minimum rest. A director will recognize these attributes and refect those qualities in a letter of recommendation. </p>

<p>I would concentrate more on being well rounded, building a solid reputation and solid skills in the 3 areas, voice, dance and acting, and less on the length or strength of the resume.</p>

<p>Good luck with the process…as it is indeed a process :)</p>

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<p>Thank you - that is a very good statement, and very caring.</p>

<p>I’m glad that my D isn’t doing what you describe, because you are very right. She’s just trying to do a lot of theater this summer because she literally had 1 speaking part prior to this spring, and only one ensemble experience before that. She’s always been a theater buff, has read everything and seen a ton, wrote her own musical in 2nd grade, that kind of thing, but she came a little late to performing (acting, that is - she’s focused until now on music).</p>

<p>All she’s doing is trying to get a couple more parts on her list, while doing what she loves more than anything - being in theater. More importantly, she’s trying to get a handle on what acting means to her, what she likes and needs, to help her determine her next step. She’s probably looking at acting in college rather than MT, although she is a singer and can dance. </p>

<p>She’s done a full academic program (she’s even taking math AND science senior year, much to my surprise!), and she’s got a lot of experience in art, writing, vocal and instrumental music (including arranging, sound mixing, etc.). She does community service, too. She’s just come late to being on stage, and she’s trying to get experience in many ways - auditioning, rehearsing, performing, and looking at how productions are put together and what the experience as a whole is like.</p>

<p>And the shows she’s connected with this summer are of varying degrees of intensity - the main one is a HS summer school production, and the other 2 are a very informal Shakespeare in the Park and a summer youth musical, in both of which she is in the ensemble only, which she could drop if needed with no hard feelings from the director (same woman for both of them).</p>

<p>I was just getting nervous because of the one post that made juggling more than one production seem a little scary, although we hear about it all the time.</p>

<p>On a more humorous note, I read online today that on Broadway once they were casting for what the director called “a Donna McKechnie type” and when Donna McKechnie auditioned, she didn’t get it! So I guess it could happen to anyone!</p>