I agree; there is so much hypocrisy in doing this. The hamburger eaters who want him killed should be made to lie down in a pen on their own excrement, then herded onto a conveyer belt where a steel rod is slammed through their brains.
Sorghum, I’m quite surprised that you don’t see the parallelism. The big game paying hunters and the guides are both decision-making adults. Just like prostitution would not be curbed by throwing prostitutes in jail, endangered species hunting would not be curbed by punishing the local guides. You need to go after the source of the demand - the paying client.
I’m sickened by this. I don’t respect the act of hunting for pure enjoyment. I don’t understand it, I don’t see how killing a lion could be “fun.”
Of course I absolutely don’t advocate violence against this man. However, given his history, I don’t have a problem with vigorous public censure that would bleed into his ability to pay outrageous sums of money in order to assassinate innocent animals, some of which are endangered species.
Jimmy Kimmel discussed this:
Who’s going after the paying client? Country of origin or the African nation? What if the african country need the money? Whosever pocket the money ends up, the country would have more money.
^The guides are more like pimps than hookers.
While likely many of us have read and been distressed by Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”, the the analogy of the gruesome meatpacking industry and treatment of animals there to the purposeful luring and killing of a well known “mascot” seems weak. Sure we should treat animals kindly, but industries should follow their regulations, and in the case of Cecil ,they did not.
People are outraged, both here and in the “real world”. Not really thinking cc is honestly taking an Alice in Wonderland “off with their heads” approach and its doubtful anyone here takes such comments, or flip comments about what they’d like to to to his manparts, seriously.
Do you think that he takes those threats seriously?
Hunting is a 20 billion dollar industry in the US alone, and $300 million goes towards wildlife conservation efforts.
https://tpwd.texas.gov/education/hunter-education/online-course/introduction/conservationists
Not supporting the cause here, just stating the facts…
I don’t know that that’s true, at least not under US law. What he did was illegal in Zimbabwe, but not here. I believe some authorities here are looking into bribery and conspiracy charges though.
Do we know where Dr. Scumbag is right now? He’s wanted by the authorities in Zimbabwe so if he’s hiding there, he could be arrested and tried if he tries to sneak home.
“^The guides are more like pimps than hookers.”
Sure. Not all hookers are pimped out. But the same principle works - get rid of the demand, and the supply will dry out.
BTW, fining this guy $3K for a poached bear was a joke. As I said, all he needed was to perform a couple of unneeded dental procedures to recoup the loss. We fine litterers $1000 for throwing trash out of car windows on freeways - when they are caught. Why not get steeper fines and stricter sentences for poachers, especially the lying ones.
LasMa, reports are that Dr. Scum is back in the US and was awaiting for his “luggage” to be delivered to him, but the lion head was intercepted in Zimbabwe.
OK then he’s escaped Zimbabwean justice.
From the CNN article on the topic of whether these African hunts actually do something for species preservation:
Here is the full article:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/africa/zimbabwe-cecil-the-lion-killed/
African reality and beliefs are not equivalent to US reactions and beliefs and are founded in different reasoning. We really should not be projecting what we think, as the same as what Africans think.
There is upset in Africa because this lion was seen as a member of the family on the preserve and should not been shot. Overall though, Africans are not upset if the “right” lions get shot.
It is important not to create a false reality to drive a faux narrative about hunting in Africa. Governments and people in Africa do not hate the paying client, and no one is going after the paying client as a crime because it is not a crime; in reality, they are trying to get more paying clients. That is just the facts of the situation, regardless of what we think as Americans.
Well, that will not work either, if the practice is legally condoned as a way of preserving the animals.
In this case, would need to change the governing philosophy in most, if not all, of these countries, with the understanding that it will result in a reduction in their monetary resources to save animals in general.
Sport hunting, understand it or not, is not a rogue activity that is done by guides who get paid on the side and under the table and by clients who routinely shoot the wrong animals. It is a well-organized activity by governments.
Therefore, trying to put guides and clients in jail for a legal government activity is a non-starter, and makes no sense since it is legal, as this dentist would not be in the news if he did not shoot a collared, beloved lion.
Additionally, reduction in sport hunting is believed will only lead to less preservation of the animals. Not my argument. It is the argument of someone who directs preservation. And the NY Times, even with its progressive thinking, seemed on board with this argument enough not to refute the article:
Alexander N. Songorwa, director of wildlife for the Tanzanian Ministry of Natural Resources and Tourism, wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/opinion/saving-lions-by-killing-them.html?_r=0
This might be true, but it’s kind of like a poor prostitute’s explanation of why she needs to keep turning tricks.
Palmer is back home in Minnesota, but his dental practice is closed until further notice.
Maybe. There’s some chance Palmer could be prosecuted under the Lacey Act, a federal (U.S.) statute that makes it a criminal offense to traffic in (buy, sell, export, import, transport, etc.) wildlife taken illegally under the laws of a foreign nation. The problem is that the Lacey Act isn’t applied extraterritorially to acts occurring wholly within another country. If Palmer had managed to get the lion’s head home, he probably would be prosecuted. The statute expressly defines the hiring of guide services for the purpose of illegally taking wildlife as a “purchase” of illegally taken wildlife, but if those acts took place entirely in Zimbabwe, he won’t be prosecuted under U.S. law, nor will he be extradited. But if he arranged for the guide services from his home in Minnesota, and if he knew or should have known that the hunt would be illegal, then it’s conceivable he could be prosecuted under the Lacey Act, and under the “dual offense” requirement for extradition, he could also conceivably be extradited. Probably a longshot, but I suspect this is some of what the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service is investigating right now. Given all that, Palmer’s self-serving statement that he thought it was all legal looks even more suspect. That statement was issued by a Minneapolis p.r. firm, but it sounds like a criminal defense lawyer had a hand in it, because if he didn’t know and had no reason to know the hunt would be illegal, there’s probably no Lacey Act violation, at least not a criminal offense.
True, though in this context “wildlife conservation” mostly means measures to ensure there’s more game for hunters to shoot at. For example, under the federal Duck Stamp program, hunters of migratory waterfowl are required to purchase a federal duck stamp to affix to their state-issued hunting license; this is in effect a federal license to hunt waterfowl. About 98% of the money raised by the feds from duck stamps goes into protecting and restoring wetlands which are critical migratory waterfowl habitat, to ensure there will be a sufficient supply of waterfowl for hunters to hunt next year and in future years. It’s good for the wetlands, mostly, through some are artificially managed to maximize their value as waterfowl habitat which may interfere with other wetland functions and values. It’s good for the migratory waterfowl, at least in the short term, until they get shot. Most of all, it’s good for hunters, who have more waterfowl to shoot at. You can think of it almost as a fee-for-service kind of deal. Probably the biggest pure conservation benefit of the program is that it educates hunters to the importance of wetlands, making many of them strong backers of wetlands protection more generally.
I find it completely incredible that Palmer was unaware of the reason that the lion was being lured to a particular spot before he could slaughter it. He is an experienced lifelong hunter, having at least 43 kills to his “credit.” If that weren’t enough, his previous conviction for shooting a bear out of bounds means that he’s well aware of the importance of these boundaries and the consequences of violating them. I’d bet my house that his statement was written by a defense attorney.
Thanks for the post.
“I believe they do need to obtain permits to hunt their own animals. This is why they end up breeding and protecting their own game. It takes a staff of locals to maintain the premises, feed and house the guests, and clean and prep the kills, so it does create jobs. If these landowners were not making decent money, they would not breed lions or maintain a hunting preserve, because it is expensive”
There is a problem with your statement, inherent in the story of how Cecil died. Cecil was lured unto the lands of the hunting preserve from the refuge he lived on…which means that there were no fences on the boundaries. In a private hunting preserve in the US, if someone was breeding their own game they would have fences around the property, to keep their own animals from wandering off. There might be private preserves in Africa that have fences around them, but that wasn’t true here, unless Cecil climbed over a fence, the boundaries are not fenced, which means it is very unlikely the property owner is breeding his own lions, odds are they are hiring wild lions that come unto his land, subject to permits he would have to be able to shoot them. In this case, the article said the owner didn’t have a permit to kill a lion (it is basically a quota system from what I understand, kind of like taking crabs in “Deadliest Catch”), and that means that when they shoot lions or game on these preserves, they are not their own animals, they are wild game.
@fractalmastr:
I don’t doubt your statistics, but you are talking the US, where for one thing, hunters generally understand that conservation means they will have animals to hunt in the future, and where money actually goes towards conservation. I was not arguing against hunting, while I am not a hunter I respect the right of people to do it if they have respect for the animal population they are hunting, but that is not hunting exotic species that are near extinction. Deer and antelope and game birds and such are governed by laws on where you can take them, there are hunting seasons, and none of these animals are protected species.
Killing animals like Lions and elephants and rhinos are killing species whose numbers are already declining, and it is much like whaling, there is absolutely no reason for them to be hunted, there is no justification.Other than native people who take a handful of whales each year in ritual hunting, there is nothing whales provide commercially that cannot be done better with other things (it is so bad that Norway, one of the few countries that insists on commercial whaling, has campaigns to try and convince people to eat whale meat, because few even like it).
Lions are not overbreeding the way deer can, Elephants and Rhinos already face extinction, and even assuming allowing hunting helps create preserves, the problem is even with preserves those animals are dying out and every one should be precious, pure and simple. Taking big game is like killing Elephants for their ivory, it is all about useless ego and greed.
And the answer might be in banning demand. If DB the Dentist can’t take a lion’s head home, or an elephant or Rhino head or parts, I doubt they would have the thrill of the kill. The analogy to this is that ivory has been banned by most countries since the mid 70’s, and there are very strict regulations governing the importation of ivory products, you have to prove they are from before the ban or mammoth ivory. It hasn’t stopped the slaughter of elephants, but if they didn’t have those bans elephants might be extinct in the wild by now (with ivory, the problem isn’t the bans, it is specifically that one country, China, basically looks the other way, 85% of the poached ivory goes to China to be turned into ivory gee gaws and so forth which local “experts” certify as being legal ivory…and like with most things with China, everyone else pretends it doesn’t go on). If you take away the trophy, most of these guys will not want to do it.
People should not be threatening violence on this guy or his family, people can speak loudly and clearly without doing that, I understand the emotion, and few people have no said things like “I would love to string them up by their toes” or “I could just kill them”, in this case it is just too far out there, and yes, some psycho could see that and go too far. I have no problem with people calling the guy names, calling him feeling inadequate, and not patronizing his business is perfectly fine, as is bringing out other shady things about him. If his family is embarrassed, that is the price of being free to do what you want, you can face approbation for doing things people aren’t happy about.
My understanding is that while hunting game preserves do generally have fences around the perimeter that keep the game from leaving the premises (at least in So. Africa; I cannot speak about Zimbabwe), the big cats cannot be penned in. They will jump the fences. The lion breeding areas have to be fenced with fencing either all the way across the top, or with very high electrified fences. Even then the enclosures are closely monitored. It is extremely dangerous to be on a hunting game preserve with a big cat loose on the premises, so they are not allowed out until a hunt is scheduled.