"With the average recent college graduate leaving campus with a diploma and $30,000 in debt, it’s no surprise that would-be-students are looking for ways to get an education without taking on such a financial burden. While they could opt to live in certain cities or states, or go to work for any of a number of the companies offering free schooling, many are moving… to Europe.
CNN Money reports that the lure of free or deeply discounted tuition is enough for thousands of students to cross the pond each year to make their dreams of a higher education a reality." …
https://consumerist.com/2017/03/30/american-students-moving-to-europe-for-free-college/
More: http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/23/pf/college/free-college-europe/
at least the government in the US doesn’t take over 50% of your earnings later on in life, free college doesn’t exist.
@noplayallwork That is an important aspect for students to remember. I think the choice comes down to when the students want to give away their money. Is it better to “pull the tooth” and take out a bunch of loans now, or pay it back through taxes later?
I would be very uncomfortable in, say, Germany. Learning a new language, being a foreign student, and trying to immerse myself in a new culture would be very stressful - I already anticipate an entirely new culture heading across the United States next fall.
I don’t think any country takes 50% of your earnings. Progressive marginal taxation (ie., brackets) is a standard of modern tax systems.
Note that “free college” or “college as a public good” used to exist in the US. The disconnect between income and the cost of college is relatively recent and massive state disinvestment mostly started in 2009.
@checkMyBrain11: where are you headed and where from?
It’s true that, language aside, the US is like a continent with many cultures and regions. 
In Germany, @MYOS1634 , when you consider income tax, VAT, private health care tax assessment, mandatory pension contributions, etc. it is well above 50% for a middle earning worker. For a single person marginal income tax is 42% above €52K, plus 5.5% solidarity tax, plus 19% VAT on most goods and services, 11% private health care tax, 9.3% pension. So you could easily exceed 65% tax on a middle class income. There are some deductions but it makes US taxes seem low.
You do receive all sorts of services but personally, I’d rather decide what I want to spend my money on.
VAT doesn’t count, as it’s tied to products you buy. I don’t count VAT as part of my US taxes (especially because it’s super confusing.)
Also, how common is it to make €52K in Germany? It’d be average in the US, but I know that German income is €29,000 so it could just be that 52K is an upper middle income there, similar to 120K in the US and therefore that not that many German people may be paying that much. (And isn’t it 35% federal + state taxes in the US for moderately upper middle incomes? So, not that much less… and we get MUCH less in return).
What’s the “private health care tax”? Sounds like “paying for private health care”, ie., not mandatory, or did you mean “public health care tax”?
I think it’s also because Europeans consider national solidarity important. It’s not so much “deciding what you choose to spend your money on” as in “participate in national efforts, do your bit, be a good citizen”. Contributing to the smooth running of your country and its population’s wellbeing could be seen as a form of patriotism. Those who complain toooo much about paying taxes and wanting to cut this and that are considered selfish if not worse. It’s a bit like Costco, you get a huge discount because of the number of people who buy in and because you essentially buy in bulk. Even die-hard conservatives wouldn’t imagine advocating for expensive college, no public option for health care, shoddy roads and bridges, etc. just because it cuts taxes. Tax cut advocates tend to focus on things like closing rural hospitals and consolidating rural schools, merging border operations, increasing class sizes and the hours of civil servants, etc., - and it’s not necessarily popular.
Angela Merkel is a conservative, for instance. She’s represented the German conservative party for quite a few elections.
(No one likes to pay taxes but it seems to me Germans get their money’s worth and Americans would be better off if we paid a bit more in taxes and got as much from it as Germans do.)
We lean toward individualism; some European countries lean toward collectivism. (with Liberty on one end and Equality on the other – talking economics here – every country is somewhere on that continuum)
@MYOS1634 , to have a comparable lifestyle in Germany you need a higher income than in the US. Housing (especially), transportation, eating out, even food are a lot more expensive. The ‘private health care tax’ lets you access services more quickly instead of waiting a long time - pretty important for working people. €52K is about the salary for an engineer with a few years of experience, so definitely a middle class income. And VAT is an important component because it increases the cost of everything. If you have only 35% of your income left after taxes, and spend it all on goods and services (50/50), VAT is equivalent to a 7% income tax. So 72% total.
If you look at my state, Michigan, we have a 28% federal tax and 4% income tax and 6% sales tax. So making the same assumptions that we spend everything, with half of my spending on goods, 34% is the tax rate, less than half of Germany.
By US Standards, Merkel is a liberal Democrat. She us only a ‘conservative’ for Europe. I agree with you as far as the social pressure in Europe, and that is why I am glad that I don’t live there. The EU as a whole has produced nothing but economic stagnation and widespread unemployment for decades.
Let’s not forget that the US provides most of the security umbrella for the EU too. They are not even paying for that. College has to be free because people have no money left over to pay for it. I don’t like paying the crazy tuition for my kids here, but overall we are much better off with this system.
The “Americans have lower taxes” is a myth. Once you add up all federal and state taxes plus social security taxes plus health insurance premuims and college costs (covered by taxes in Europe), Americans are paying more than Europeans.
More details: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-myth-of-low-tax-america-why-americans-arent-getting-their-moneys-worth/274945/
MYOS1634 - you do not believe that any country takes 50% of your earnings? Obviously tax rates progressively increase so there is a notion of a marginal tax rate. But I can tell you that many Canadians pay over 50% income tax. And that does not include property tax or sales tax (at 13%). Canadian income taxes are continuously increasing and have blown through 50%. And while tuition is less expensive in Canada relative to private schools (or OOS), it is similar to in state tuition.
I doubt highly that the average American pays 55% in taxes, total (sate/federal/local, SS, Medicare…). That’s Norway’s income tax rate.
Now if you are paying an effective federal income tax of 25% (after deductions…)… and say 6% state and 3% local… add 8% for SS and Medicare… you could be paying over 40%. But that doesn’t apply to very many of us. And that is still less than Norway’s federal income tax.
As someone who spent all my four years in a German (native, not a fancy international school) High School after living most of my life in America, I’m always very wary of stories like these. I know many people see Europe as this progressive wonderland with free education and liberal values but it honestly isn’t all that it is cracked up to be. The quality of the experience is much less than even a state school (I go to a relatively low ranked state flagship because of scholarships) in the US would offer and there are far fewer resources. I would describe it as a bare-bones education. Not only will one end up paying back the price of “free” college over many years in the form of taxes, but I also still know of many people who either can’t afford to or take out loans as well because of high living expenses (in spite of “free” tuition). If one were to stay in state and do well in High School, the price difference between US colleges and European unis wouldn’t be all that much. At the same time, people underestimate just how difficult moving to an entirely new country is, especially non-Anglosaxon countries that often don’t have as much of a welcoming culture as we do (I’m speaking mostly of non-Spanish speaking Europe, I don’t know how Spanish-speaking countries are in this department). In my opinion, unless one’s goal is to truly, permanently move to a different country (not because of “free” tuition, but because one really wants to move there), this isn’t a great idea for undergrad.
@MYOS1634 For FAFSA I had to go through my parents’ German tax returns and trust me, taxes and mandatory government contributions are extremely high, much higher than what my parents used to pay in the US with similar income. Not only is income tax higher, but there are a ton of mandatory fees and funds that one must contribute to. On top of that, VAT is way higher than in the US. People don’t notice this in Europe because tax is included in the price and not added later on at the point of sale. If I remember correctly, German sales tax is around 19-22%.
@insanedreamer I think what you may be forgetting is that in the US you don’t have to go to college to get a well paying job. I have many co-workers that do not have degrees that make a good living (IT). In your example, these people would be forced to pay for something they don’t want (college) via taxes for their entire working life.
@ccsouth but the same is true in Europe - in fact, in Germany many people go to vocational training schools instead of universities for that reason.
Having said that, IT is a outlier in that what matter are demonstrable skills rather than formal education, and certifications can be gotten without college. I have friends working in high-paying jobs at Google, LinkedIn, RedHat, etc., who never even finished high school, much less went to college. But you don’t find that in any other industry – you’ll get automatically screened out before you can even get a job interview. Nowadays, a college degree is the new high school degree (and that’s not a good thing).
@prezbucky SS is actually 15% - it’s just that 1/2 is paid by your employer (therefore lowering your wages) – unless you’re self-employed in which case you pay the full 15%. In Cal you can be easily paying 15% federal + 10% state + 9% sales + 15% SS = 49%. Not far below Norway. Once you add on health care costs, Californians are paying more than Norwegians (and don’t tell me Americans are healthier than Norwegians). And besides healthcare, Norway gives you higher education and other benefits which Californians don’t have. Just look at what discretionary US Federal taxes are spent on compared to Norway, and it’s clear why there’s little available to benefit citizens (hint: defense). (Cal spends nearly as much on corrections as higher education, if you can believe it.) Anyway, I don’t want to turn this into a political debate, so I’ll stop here!
- Sales tax shouldn't count though. We're talking about taxes levied against income.
- Factoring in the price of goods would be interesting.
And 10% state income tax… yikes. Where I live it’s something like 4.5% and I spent a decade in TN, where it’s (or was) 0%.
Regarding “free” college, we pay a lot for our schools, and we get what we pay for: the best higher education in the world, overall. (with all due respect to the Brits, who have two of the top ten… we have most of the top schools in the world.)
I would argue that no spending is more important than defense, since we can’t enjoy Liberty or Property if we’re dead, but that’s an argument for another day and another forum. hehe
In Europe, taxes tend to be higher (though if you are upper-middle-class in the US in a high-tax state with Federal income tax close to 30%, state/local income tax around 10%, the SS and Medicare taxes adding to about 18% yet no free college or healthcare, it may not be better than being in Europe), but Europe also has a stronger social safety net.
The idea that a middle-class family could be thrown in to poverty and have their savings wiped out because of a medical emergency or layoff (which happens fairly often in the US) must sound third-worldish or Dickensanian to Europeans.
lol what I don’t get is how can anyone in America who isn’t a total idiot not afford college? If you applied yourself even the least bit in highschool there are plenty of scholarship and financial aid opportunities available, and tons public schools are reasonably priced. JFC just join the national guard if its really that impossible, free tuition for a few weekends out for your year!