If they predict an aggregate 10% yield and actually get 10% yield, then they are ok.
But over yield can be a problem if that means not enough space in classes (or dorms as a residential college).
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Yes, over enrolling has been a problem for several schools in the past. But unlikely any school we talk about here is going to predict a 10% yield.
I think we may not actually even disagree about any of this, but I think we are having two different conversations that are passing one another. I didnāt see anything in the article that started this thread that suggested the issue that led to this ED ban of CA by Tulane had anything to do with these secret getting unqualified kids off the waitlist you are referring to. I was responding to your claim that college counselors should have zero oral communications with AOs and asserting an immoral unfairness. But I now see that you are concerned about something different than I understood the āscandalā in this thread to be about. Since Iām not even sure I disagree with the concern you are talking about. I will leave it be at this. Thanks for the civil engagement. Appreciate it.
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Yep, and thatās gross. This thread has had parents testify that their private schools have 1 college counselor for every 25 students, while others testify that their public school counselors have 1:450 ratios, in addition to multiple other duties. Which counselor is going to have the time to call up an AO and plead little Avaās case? Add to this that the prep school CC and the AO used to be work buddies, and maybe have a direct cellphone number, and the public rightly sees it as unethical.
I agree that there are probably parents on this board who have had their college counselors pull strings for their own kids, and itās reflected in the number here who donāt seem to think itās any sort of problem. Itās similar to the high number of parents on CC who think legacy admissions are win-wins for everybody invloved.
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I donāt think they are back door communications at many schools. A lot of catholic hs counselors are pretty open that they have a connection at Notre Dame or Loyola (pick one) or Catholic U. My niece went to a catholic hs in Denver and in her class there were 7 from her rather small graduating class at San Diego, and that many in each of the classes in front of her. Feeder school, plus other kids from other hs in Denver. My kids had a friend who was accepted very late to Catholic U with money, and there was no doubt that it was āarranged.ā
I donāt see that as different than hiring a private college counselor who knows the system and a few AOs to help their clients. Private counselors are hired because theyāve been successful in placing kids at xyz colleges. They advertise that. They say 'I get along with the AO at Duke or Northwestern or U of Dallas. Some of the private counselors were hs counselors and thatās how the made the connections..
If they are taking bribes, or giving bribes, thatās different but just making an keeping connections? Coaches do it with club and hs coaches and a lot of those kids get ED admissions when without the coach, and without the connection with the youth coach, the student might not have gotten accepted, especially ED.
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Iām not sure how I feel about the athletics pipeline either. Of course I respect the huge commitment that student athletes put in to their sports. But I donāt understand why college sports needs to be such a big thing that it trumps practically everything else. Not a sports parent so perhaps Iām just ignorant.
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I agree with the poster above (@ECCA2026) who said we are having two separate conversations here. This thread was about the violation of the ethical agreement to honor an ED acceptance. That to me is unethical. But having a friend/contact at a school that you might call in a special circumstance? That is not unethical. As @twoinanddone said, taking a bribe or kickback- that is unethical. But having a conversation with someone you know? Not an ethical violation.
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Thatās not how it works.
Yale or Stanford are not saying, āWow, we are so lucky to have these kids applying now, because in previous years, Tulane would have gotten all of them.ā
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Tulane response to NYT article, from the VP of Enrollment/Dean of Admission. I believe it was only sent to HS counselors, but Iām not sure:
Colleagues,
Many of you have seen the recent New York Times article highlighting that we placed a one-year pause on Early Decision offers of admission at four schools where students broke an Early Decision Agreement. I hope you can understand why we cannot share details about any particular case, but I wanted to clarify a few points that were not included in the story:
We actually released well over 50 admitted students from the Early Decision Agreement last year for financial reasons. And we did so even though we met their demonstrated financial need. Because we recognize that meeting oneās financial need may still not be enough for some families who need to compare financial aid offers, we released these students from the Early Decision Agreement with no penalty or consequence. The cases where we enacted a pause were instances where students broke their promises, that we were relying on, without a plausible explanation.
The Timesā article quotes a three-year-old Inside Higher Ed story suggesting that we admitted just 106 Regular Decision students in 2022. That is not correct.
The 106 figure was our yield on Regular Decision admission offers at that time. Regardless, in the last three years, we have doubled the number of Regular Decision admission offers to more than 1,100 and will extend a similar number of admission offers again this year.
The reporter was also not willing to make it clear that students at the schools in which we have paused Early Decision offers can still apply to Tulane via Early Action or Regular Decision. Tulane is one of the few selective universities that offers both Early Decision and Early Action. And we extend the majority of our admission offers to students who apply Early Action, which enables students to apply early and compare their admission and financial aid offers. Last year, we extended just over 2,300 Early Action admission offers and where an Early Decision pause is in place, we would simply guide students to apply Early Action, which operates on nearly the same timetable as Early Decision. While Tulane is one of the 30+ colleges and universities in America that typically fills more than half of its class with students who apply Early Decision, the sweeping majority of our actual admission offers are made through our Early Action and Regular Decision rounds. Last year, 3,400+ of our 4,600 admission offers (74%) were made through Early Action and Regular Decision.
I only write to clarify that there is no flat-out ban on any particular school and at each of the schools where weāve placed a reluctant pause on considering Early Decision Agreements, their college counselors have been nothing but professional and have attempted to steer their students toward ethical decision-making.
Some thoughts:
-The mere fact Tulane felt the need to respond is telling, and that they might feel their actions arenāt being met with a positive reaction in the industry (they are not, even though thatās not the case here on CC LOL.)
-Glad they cleared up the 106 students accepted in RD situation a few years ago. Would have been better if they told us how many were accepted in RD, not how many they yielded. The cited article was widely circulated in the industry. Why not just share EA and RD admission details in the CDS?
-They mention that they met the financial need of the 50+ students who reneged for financial reasons, but neglect to say that is financial need as calculated by Tulane, and also Tulane often includes loans in FA packages. I canāt comment on the accuracy of Tulaneās NPC.
-Tulane likely released more than 50+ ED students, maybe significantly so. AFAIK ED renegers cite gap years more often than financial reasons, based on data Iāve seen over the years. Of course, some schools might have a different experience or not even allow gap years, for any students, let alone those admitted ED. Also, some students have more unique situations happen, like family illness, or their own illness that change the nature of their college path. They didnāt say if the past yearās ED reneg rate was higher than normal, but regardless, their yield model takes into account their historical ED reneg rate, so there is no issue of ātaking someoneās spotā.
-Going forward students should cite financial reasons if they are going to pull out of ED. The majority of HS counselors canāt/wonāt get into a familyās financial details, and colleges tend to release ED applicants for āfinancial reasonsā without the need for great detail/explanation. Iām not suggesting families not adhere to the ethics of ED agreements, and many schoolsā NPCs are accurate.
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Thanks for sharing the letter!
I think itās good they clarified that it doesnāt impact students from those schools applying EA or RD. And that 4 HSs were impacted.
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Agree, and hope some of them are accepted. I expect Tulane apps might be down from these schools, if only because affluent students have higher rates of applying ED, so they will just sub another school/schools for ED1/2.
I also wouldnāt be surprised if apps are down from these schools on principle. Remember, the offenders from these schools were not punished. They went to their chosen schools with no consequence, aside from losing their Tulane enrollment deposit.
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I can speak to that - at least as it relates to my personal situation. I found the NPC VERY close to the FAFSA calculated (pre-loan). In any case - as is mentioned repeatedly - run the NPC (for any school) before you apply.
Applicants need to submit FAFSA/CSS during the application cycle. So just claiming financial reasons isnāt going to cut it. The school is going to have insight into how much of a burden itās going to be or not. A family that has significant income/assets is not going to be release for financial reasons.
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edited
Not all of the renegers applied for aid though, and were counting on merit (which is misguided). Regardless, I do understand your point, but a family who applied for need aid can always cite a change in circumstances. Things like job loss, or needing to provide for relatives, or incurring a large gambling debt, etc etc etc.
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And therein lies the rub, what does it mean to not be āreleasedā? Perhaps the inherent problem with ED is that, indeed, itās not a legal contract; consequences for reneging are not exactly clear. The applicant has agreed to name-sharing, but how would the ED school share the name with other institutions and at what point in time, if name-sharing is exactly the behavior that may be alleged to run afoul of the Sherman Act (I havenāt read the lawsuit; Iām just recalling an old law review article). Sorry, maybe this comment is better suited for the other thread. Just thinking out loud again.
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While I understand they canāt share specific details, that does not mean they could not share more beyond, ābroke their promises, that we were relying on, without a plausible explanation.ā Having been in education technology for 25 years, hiding behind privacy often means - I do not think you will like what you hear - or I just do not want you to know.
not meant for you @Mwfan1921
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Completely get that itās a spectrum and lots of individual circumstances. I just think those ā50+ā they let out for financial reasons there was likely some information the school needed to support that rather than a simple letter from the applicant claiming a financial change. Could well be proven wrong though.
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50-ish is <5% of ED admittees, seems reasonable. My next question would be how many reneged/wanted to be released outside of these 50-ish financial ones? If that number is significant, as Tulaneās attempts to (edit) punish high schools may indicate, I think thatās a signal of the pressure to apply ED for anyone who has Tulane on their list, the problem with Tulaneās overall use of ED as its primary enrollment management tool.
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Any thoughts on how to treat ED applicants who re-neg, and did not apply for aidā¦ but claim to have lost their money?
Not sure I would agree that Tulane is trying to stem anything. They sent a letter to GCās (per the OP - unless someone shows that this was made more public) giving more detail than what was written in the story and explaining their side of it a little better. I would say this is pretty common practice.
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