Consolation, have you watched the surveillance video? A crowd surrounded one of the officers, with some people hitting, pushing and pulling him. One report says he thought he felt someone trying to remove his gun.
Whether or not that was the case I don’t think anyone was asking the family to shuck and jive. What was expected was the same kind of common sense all responsible parents regardless of race teach our kids. Follow the rules and don’t antagonize the police. The woman had already been asked to leave the pool but brushed past the police office to get in and then refused to talk with him. Yes, she was walking in the direction of the entrance when he detained her but at that point she’d already established that she wasn’t cooperating. How could he tell if she was going to leave, go argue with the pool staff some more or do something else entirely?
Clearly I spent too much time this morning reading media accounts of this incident. Some questions I have:
From another media report,
Does anyone think that’s better? Is it even legal for a private citizen to carry a stun gun?
Is there any evidence other than the FB post by the family spokesman that the 12 year old suffered injuries other than second-hand pepper spray? According to reports there was no mention of any injury on site.
Did the park ranger pool security guy remind anyone else of Barney Fife? ;))
I’d like to see a time line of how long before the first drop off and the filmed incident. The report said the pool staff called the park ranger, but the cops were there when the mother returned with the swimsuit, and a lot of cops. The clip is also not continuous, as the shouting starts in the pool area but the handcuffs and shouting and sitting down are outside near police cars.
I really cannot believe that people would start talking about how she “must have had ID” to drive. So you’ve never left your purse in the car when running into a place to drop something off?
If I have my wallet, I always take it with me, ever since I left my car for literally 6 minutes, while it was in the high school parking lot, in sight of softball practice, next to the building, while I dropped off an envelope of forms.
During that time, my car was broken into, purse stolen, and by the time I went back into the school to call the police, they had charged at two different gas stations and a grocery store.
So, no, I never leave my purse in the car.
I expect the parking lot at a water park is similarly being staked out by those looking for an opportunity.
I’d like to see a timeline as well, in particular how much time elapsed between the time the kids were dropped off and the time the adults returned, and I’d be curious to hear what other pool visitors have to say about the behavior of the kids at the pool. Was the primary issue the bathing suit or were the kids being obnoxious aside from the issue of dress?
It appears that the officer was initially on his own apart from the presence of the ranger and other officers arrived after the part where he’s swarmed by family members. In the videos where the officer asks for the mom’s ID and grabs her arm the mother’s not holding a bathing suit or anything else so it’s probable that some time has passed since she’s arrived.
^^ Plus IIRC she asks to have someone turn off her car. I can’t imagine leaving a wallet in a running car.
As I said, before, the issue for me is not the ability to produce ID. If she had stopped and calmly talked with the officer I don’t think the incident would ever have gotten to the point where he’d ask for ID.
I leave my wallet in my car if I’m going to a pool. I have terrible vision (thus can’t check on my stuff from the pool with my glasses off) and would rather leave it buried in my locked car than buried in my clothes somewhere. (Just so we’re clear- I’ve had a car stolen out of my own driveway before. I know it happens but I’ll take my chances.)
Just because you wouldn’t do something doesn’t mean no one else would.
And whether she produces the ID for the cop is really immaterial IMO. The cops should’ve never been there in the first place!
the rules at public pools are often overwhelming. I dont know why there are so many.
However, i asked my son who’s in “management” at the local city pool about what he’d do in a situation like this; and he said that every day they deal with customers who try to break rules. Like bringing in outside food; not wearing a swim suit, dropping off young kids without adult supervision, complaining about not having credit card machines; trying to get refunds, capacity limits, etc. Every day people throw small tantrums about not wanting to follow the rules which are all clearly posted.
I think he and the other staff have gotten a little callous to special needs and special situations; they all start sounding like excuses.
not sure what to think of this situation; but i’m sure there’s 2 sides; one of them being that the customers did not follow the stated rules; the other being that the police went way overboard.
Why is it that civilians are expected to be calm and rational, but professional law enforcement officers are not? Or as someone put it on another thread, why must we treat cops as if they are unpredictable and dangerous wild animals? Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this?
The video shows the cop blocking the entry to the pool asking her to leave, asking her name (not for an ID, but her name) backing up as she was trying to get by without touching her. She would not stop. It appears that the adults (the two sisters) never paid the admission fee. The article said the children were dropped off and the mothers went to retrieve the suit. We don’t know how long this all took, but long enough for the ranger to be called and at least 3-4 cops to arrive.
I actually think the cops were pretty calm. The woman cop was telling the girl to sit down, to blink her eyes to get the sting out. The mother asked for the boy to be seated next to her and it looks like the cops granted that request when the screaming stopped.
I checked the rules for this pool and one of them is “All sales are final. No cash refunds will be given for admission.” The pool rightly denied them a refund.
Most public pools do have a long list of rules and regulations. There seems to something missing in this story of why things escalated to the point they did.
Yes, I watched the video before commenting in the first place. I can’t believe they hauled out the “they were going for my gun” chestnut.
I also can’t believe that some people are attempting to discredit her based on whether she should or should not have left her car running, should or should not have left her wallet in the car, and other ridiculous trivia.
For the record, it never occurred to me to have a conversation with my S about how to talk to the police. For one thing, we aren’t black–and isn’t it a sad commentary that a white parent doesn’t have to have The Talk?–and for another, I assume that one is a free citizen who talks to a policeman just the way one talks to any other citizen.
From experience, there are a lot of pool rules because the first thing out of someone’s mouth is “Is that a rule? Where is it written that I can’t…”. And you would think common sense would prevail regardless, but there are always those on the board or in management that will say “They’re right. It’s not written anywhere and therefore we cannot enforce a rule we don’t have, or don’t have explicitly in writing”. Hence, a long list of rules.
In many ways, they are there to help the staff not lose their minds.
The ‘long list of rules’ are often required by an insurance company or health department. No running, no cut off shorts, no spitting, pushing, fighting, refunds, children left alone. No violence, follow the instructions of the staff. In the video, the staff at the desk looked like adults, but often it is a bunch of 16 year olds enforcing the rules.
I did tell my children, when they were in high school, to assume everyone they came in contact with had a gun and to just void conflict, back away, that we’d deal with it later. We live in Florida and everyone does have a gun. Neither would ever grab a cop like several of the children did in this case, shouting ‘don’t touch my mom.’ In the video there is clearly a boy grabbing for the pepper spray.
We are white and I’ve talked to my children on multiple occasions about how to act and what to do if stopped by police. In a perfect world, all police officers would be well trained, calm and reasonable. It’s not a perfect world and you never know which type of police officer you will encounter - the reasonable one or the power tripping jerk. By the nature of the job, cops are on their guard and often quick to react. They don’t know you or your intentions. The cop has the power in the situation, not you.
My kids have been taught that if stopped in their car, to take out their license and insurance card, put them on the dash and put their hands on the dash where the officer can see them. No sudden movements, be polite and say “yes sir/ma’am” or “no sir/ma’am.” Ive told my kids what they need to respond to and what to politely decline to respond or consent to. And never, ever run or resist arrest. To me, this is common sense. Don’t antagonize cops!
When my S was in HS, he was leaving the neighborhood where his GF lived late one evening when he was stopped by a cop. Apparently, some boys of similar age had been causing mischief in the neighborhood and had egged a parked police car. The cop was convinced my S was part of that group and questioned him extensively. My S politely answered his questions. Finally, after about 30 minutes, my S held out his hands and told the officer to either arrest him if he didn’t believe him, or my S was going to get back in his car and go home. The cop let him go. Had my S been belligerent towards the cop, I’m sure the cop would’ve arrested him and brought him to the station for questioning.
I do think racism is a huge problem in our country that needs to be addressed. But I agree with Sue22 that some of these incidents occur not because of racism, but because of the behavior of the individuals involved towards authorities. The latter incidents detract from the real incidents of abuses of power motivated by racism.
@Overtheedge I agree with your post. However, I thought police officers are supposed to be trained when dealing with the belligerent and not get emotional and abuse their authority.
It probably would be easier if the public modeled restrained behavior for their children, but they would have to be present to do so.
The mom should have known better than to leave all those kds without a supervising adult.
She did leave to get her sister, but why wouldnt she have done that first?