Too little info right now but it seems another case of total lack of common sense.
The one abiding question is why on earth they weren’t allowed to stay after the young man changed into a swimsuit?
- Meanwhile, the desk woman calls the ranger to get the kids to leave.>>>>>>>
But why??? That is what is not explained.
Various black CC parents have described incidents involving their children, especially male children, over the years. Kids accosted walking in the neighborhood where they live.
I suggest we just believe them and stop attempting to extrapolate from the experiences of our white kids and ourselves. to justify this BS.
For the record, it never occurred to me to have a conversation with my S about how to talk to the police. For one thing, we aren’t black–and isn’t it a sad commentary that a white parent doesn’t have to have The Talk?->>>>>>>>>
Whoa, are you kidding? We’re white and I have three sons and believe me, we had The Talk.
Hear, hear.
The child wearing basketball shorts was contacted by pool staff and told that his swimming attire was against regulations. He then called his mother and told her what had happened and that he was being asked to leave. Apparently, she told him he “didn’t have to leave” which is what he then told pool staff.
That’s the point at which the ranger was called as it is his job to take care of issues that have escalated beyond the staff’s ability to deal with them. That’s why the ranger was there when the woman returned. By that point, the issue had transitioned from the improper swimming attire to a refusal to follow staff instructions, among others.
At this point, it might help for you to see some of the pool rules. Here are a few of that might apply here;
*"Patrons are requested to cooperate in observing these rules and to obey the instructions of the Fairfield Aquatic Center staff. Patrons violating swimming rules are subject to the revocation of their swimming privileges.
The Pool Supervisor and designated assistants are responsible for the operation of the pool. Their instruction must be followed at all times.
GENERAL RULES
All persons entering the pool facility must pay the appropriate admission fee or present proof of a valid season pass or program registration.
Children under 8 years of age entering the pool facility must be accompanied by a guardian 13 or over.
Parents/guardians must directly supervise children in their care.
All sales are final. No cash refunds will be given for admission. *
When the woman returned, she began violating rules, apparently one after another, including demands for a refund, which escalated the situation. She then refused to follow the instructions of police.
Hope this helps.
Consolation, if you were responding to my post, I am not discounting such incidents. I firmly believe that racism is, regrettably, still a problem in our country. There are too many incidents of police harassing black males for no reason or treating black males differently than white males in the same circumstances. That needs to end. But that doesn’t mean that every altercation is racially motivated, or that persons detained don’t bear some responsibility to act appropriately. If you act like a thug, you will usually be treated like a thug - whether you are black or white. We need to focus on stopping police from treating someone as a thug just because they are black. There is a difference between these two things.
I don’t know what it is like to be black. So my way of trying to understand is to relate things to my view of the world. When I look at various incidents, I imagine my kids in the place of the detainee. I ask myself whether, if my kids acted in the same manner, I would expect the same result. For example, if cops broke up a HS party and my S tried to run away, would I expect them to shoot him in the back? Of course not. If my S was leaving an area where a crime had been committed and he fit the profile of the perpetrator, would I expect he be detained? Yes. If he was polite and didn’t resist arrest, would I expect him to get beaten up? No. When the outcome is different than what I would expect in the same circumstances with my white child, I question the incident.
I swear to doG, if I were black, at this point I think I might be interested in the idea of segregated pools in order to have some peace.
I haven’t heard Dylann Roof referred to as a “thug.” Or Adam Lanza, or Jared Loughner, or Jokhar Tsarnaev, or Ted Bundy, or Timothy McVeigh.
You give hypotheticals about if your son got involved with the cops, but you leave out some scenarios that parents of black kids, especially sons, have to worry about. For example, if your S were routinely pulled over for no apparent reason. If your S were doing nothing wrong at all and fit no description of a suspect, and the police assaulted him. If your S were politely complying with police instructions, and got shot anyway. Can you see how this kind of treatment would get really old?
And again – police are trained. They are professional. They are supposed to defuse, not escalate. They are supposed to be able to control themselves. Why do we have such low expectations for how LEOs should behave, to the point that if someone (black) gets hurt by a cop, it’s always the victim’s fault?
@LasMa - please re-read my post. My comments have nothing to do with the evil crazies of the world like Roof. And actually, I didn’t even opine as to whether I thought the pool situation was racially motivated. I responded initially to another comment regarding talking to white kids about their interaction with cops. When I was called out for discounting stories of harassment (which I absolutely did not discount) I tried to explain that I WOULD view a situation as racially motivated if the black male detainee was treated differently than I would expect my white male son to be treated in the same circumstances. And I do expect cops to be well trained professionals, but that doesn’t always make it so. Not every small town has a great pool of candidates to choose from who want to lay their life in the line for marginal pay. Not ideal, but it is the reality. So I teach my kids to act with caution. To me, that’s common sense. No one said that it’s always the victims fault. I give up.
My Sunday paper has a “rant and rave” section where people write in little experiences with kudos or a figurative smack with a newspaper. From today’s edition:
“RAVE To the discount store clerk who resolved a verbal conflict between two customers. In minutes she listened to both parties, reiterated what each wanted and negotiated an agreeable solution without further issues. If elected officials were so like-minded we’d live in Nirvana”
The Seattle Times
Yes, and if other public service employees and officers of the law were so trained it would also reduce these types of incidences. I feel like law enforcement in most jurisdictions has enough to worry about with real criminals and emergency situations, and would want to know how to reduce tensions and reach negotiated settlement in these types of situations where it is more about personalities, egos and tempers than real crime. Instead they often seem to be hell-bent on escalating things.
Of course not. You hear them referred to as “psychopath”, “mass murderer” or “terrorist.”
Seriously.
Thugs use intimidation to attempt to get their way, but they arent generally serial killers.
Count me as one of those people in their 50s who had absolutely no idea until reading this thread that the word “thug” had taken on racial connotations that definitely were not there in my youth. I’m pretty sensitive to language and I’m not quite sure how I missed it. But 5 minutes on google indicates that the current meaning of the term is much different now. Thank you @lasma for raising a flag on that because it would have sailed right past me.
As for “white people attempting to extrapolate from the experiences of our white kids,” I see this as a good thing, not a negative. Thankfully we are transitioning from a society that largely turns a blind eye to negative encounters between authority figures and minority citizens, to one that is trying to understand it and change behavior. The ability to understand and share the feelings of another is the very definition of empathy. So I, for one, wouldn’t jump all over a poster who shares an experience of a white son. Otherwise, we all might as well just stop talking.
Ours is a racially mixed family. I talk with my daughter, as well, about what to do in the event of a police stop. Everyone should have this talk with their child IMO. There are roughly a million police officers in the US. The vast majority are well-trained professionals who are excellent at what they do. But each person is a little different. If stopped in your car, on the street, or at the pool, no one wants a bad outcome. So having “the talk” is important.
Last, I recognize the above comment about “segregated pools” was made in the spirit of empathy. But that was such a horrible, hurtful time in our nation’s past that I’m not sure it should even be suggested as an answer to today’s problems.
@MidwestDad3 - thank you for clarifying. I did not realize that “thug” had racial connotations.
@Overtheedge, I didn’t “call you out.” If I intended to do so I would have used your name.
I see it as a good thing when empathy comes into play and the conclusion that is drawn is that my white kid is likely to have a very different experience with cops than that reported by black parents.
I see it as a bad thing when people draw the conclusion that the black kid must have been doing something wrong, because my white kid would not have elicited such a response if he behaved well.
I have seen both reactions here, in this discussion and others.
Believe me, my comment about segregated pools was meant as deeply ironic, not as a suggested answer to today’s problems. I should have included an emoticon.
@Consolation,
My reading of Overtheedge’s post was that she gauges the treatment of other people’s kids based on whether she could expect the same treatment of her white kid, not about whether black teens are sometime treated unfairly. We have clear evidence that happens. I find myself using the same yardstick as Overtheedge-how an upper middle class white kid would be treated under the same circumstances. For instance, if my child were caught running from a party with alcohol I’d expect the police to pick him up. If he were to flip off the officers I’d expect them to lose patience very fast and perhaps be less than gentle with him. If his black or Hispanic friends acted the same way I’d expect them to be hauled in to the station alongside him.
Jogging through a wealthy neighborhood in a ratty t-shirt and shorts I’d expect my kid to be left alone. If I heard about a black or Hispanic teen stopped for the same I’d ascribe it to racial profiling.
The question for me is always whether it’s the behavior that caused the reaction or appearance and/or assumptions about a certain group. Of course this is all complicated. My kid’s default expectation is that the cops might bust him, they might even accuse him of something he doesn’t think he did, but that generally they’re not out to get him. A different kid in a different neighborhood might have a different default expectation based on experiences in their own community, and of course that can cause the kid to react differently.
BTW, I’m another parent who has had the “How to interact with the police” conversations with all my kids. I’ve taught them that the first word out of their mouth when addressing a police officer needs to be “Sir” or “Ma’am” because it sets the tone for what will come after and sends the immediate message that they are planning to cooperate and respect the cop.
I haven’t heard Dylann Roof referred to as a “thug.” Or Adam Lanza, or Jared Loughner, or Jokhar Tsarnaev, or Ted Bundy, or Timothy McVeigh>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“Pure Evil” is what each has been called. IMO, that certainly is worse than “thug”.
Count me as one of those people in their 50s who had absolutely no idea until reading this thread that the word “thug” had taken on racial connotations that definitely were not there in my youth. I’m pretty sensitive to language and I’m not quite sure how I missed it. But 5 minutes on google indicates that the current meaning of the term is much different now. Thank you @lasma for raising a flag on that because it would have sailed right past me.>>>>>>>>>>>>
I didn’t either.
Even after looking it up and reading the opinions, I don’t think ‘thug’ is a generally accepted racial slur. Richard Sherman babbled on about it, one of the rappers had it tattooed on him. So what? Language means what the people saying and hearing it mean. “Bad” can mean good, “Phat” can mean nice looking, “cool” rarely refers to temperature.
If my mother says ‘thug’ I think of the Italian mob, the Godfather’s friends, because I know that’s what she means. If my daughter says she’s ‘talking to’ a boy, I know that means she’s flirting and considering dating him (other daughter, same age, doesn’t say that).
I’m not buying into the whole ‘thug is racial’ argument. I’m also not concerned about calling sprinkles ‘jimmies’ which is another ridiculous argument I read today.