<p>You might look at it as what you might regret down the line, having helped ‘too much’ or not having helped ‘enough’. I understand those terms are relative, but can add some perspective. One thing you can do is get therapy for yourself right now, and that person can help you figure out an approach that might work. It is so hard to see these situations clearly when you are in the middle of them, so having someone to talk to, that can help you do that could be invaluable.</p>
<p>I could be wrong, and I’m just an anonymous poster on an Internet forum - but I think your son’s problem could be something very serious (maybe something more than a “funk”) and therefore needs serious intervention. I think you know it too, hence the “wellness checks” during the day. </p>
<p>You’ll have time later to worry about safety nets and coddling. For now, treat it with the urgency it deserves. If he were running a high temperature and couldn’t bend his neck, wouldn’t you take him to the hospital to rule out meningitis?</p>
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<p>To the OP, please get your son some help immediately. Just this past weekend I attended a memorial service for a friend’s son, who had recently returned home for the summer from school. He returned home depressed and saying he didn’t want to return. He had always been a very successful student athlete and this was a very difficult situation for them to understand. </p>
<p>The parents set up an appointment to see a therapist (he was very resistant to going). They accompanied him to the appointment, but in the middle of the session he excused himself, saying he needed to get some air, walked out of the office and then committed suicide by jumping off a freeway overpass. It’s heartbreaking for the parents - on one hand they feel as if they hadn’t “forced” him to see the therapist, he might not have committed suicide. On the other hand, they recognize that without attempting to get help it might have happened anyway.</p>
<p>Wow–my condolences, Chepar! How awful! I agree that when a kid insists no more school, it makes sense to stop school via a leave of absence and figure out how to carefully proceed. </p>
<p>I’d contact the school to see if they can keep the scholarship intact while the other issues are resolved and suspect they may be willing to work with you. I’d definitely be working with mental health professional(s) to figure out what’s going on–sounds like a major change recently that needs further exploration.</p>
<p>Look for a local therapist and do it now. I suggest (if they are open at all) calling the local high school and finding who they recommend. Often the HS has someone whom they refer young adults to which can make a huge difference.</p>
<p>This is tough and made tougher since he is an adult (since you can’t forcibly drag him). If it is depression he may say he does not want to talk to a therapist because he doesn’t know what is wrong. Nothing is “wrong” really to talk about except " I’m in a black hole and can’t get out". And even that can’t be voiced clearly. Basically he had a crummy year at school, home is fine, nothing horrible is going on. So what is there to say? And talking doesn’t seem like it would fix anything anyway. So why go?</p>
<p>A therapist does have some tests available that can be given to help diagnose the type and severity of depression which are helpful. Or decide if depression is even the problem. A good one will refer you to a psychiatrist if needed.
If meds are prescribed at some point, get him to take them. Many take a few weeks to help since many are based on helping the brain chemicals build back up which takes time. An interesting thing is that the affected person may not notice any change for themselves (and want to quit) but you may notice the behavior changes as an outside observer (like a decent response to simple requests without having to nag, or a happier “hello”). You may notice that they are working before he does. Meds are not a life long sentence by any means. And if one doesn’t work another may–even in the same class of drugs.</p>
<p>Or there may be another physical cause–many people on this forum have described physical ailments (such as thyroid, hormones) that may cause these symptoms.</p>
<p>Depression is NOT the same as addiction and is not treated the same. Erase that from your head. Entirely.</p>
<p>Sometimes the addict will have to “hit bottom” to admit needing help. Our society has help (still working on quality) to help addicts. Rehab, drug therapy, support groups. Although addiction is debilitating and can ruin lives it is a matter of getting OFF a drug of choice and trying to return to normality. The work to be done is by the addict.</p>
<p>A depressed person can sit in a black hole and can just get worse no matter what they do to combat it. The brain chemicals or lack there of is not caused by any outside action from themselves. There is no “pleasure high” in being depressed. It is not a matter of stopping a detrimental action but trying to use what science we do have through therapy and/or meds to return to normalcy.</p>
<p>To see someone you’ve always seen as totally independent, strong, and intelligent be swallowed up is really hard.
Again–you are not alone.So hugs to you. Big hugs. Stop nagging–it won’t do any good. Save your breath. Think on the other side–it takes time and there is no quick fix to any of these problems but your kid and all those qualities you admire and love in him ARE STILL THERE! I can’t say that enough! They will return when he’s strong enough–it’s part of his DNA.</p>
<p>FWIW:</p>
<p>@Cardinal Fang: It’s ironic that you say I may be a ‘little too close to the nothing end’ as almost everyone I know, including my ex and my son would say I was far closer to being a helicopter parent and that my problem is definitely not doing too little. My son is nearing 21 and I know how much money he has in the bank, I know his grades, I have his passwords on his school accounts (which he provided to me), our relationship is at least close enough that he did call me when he was considering talking to a therapist, and he was willing to admit to me that his roommate had been arrested for dealing drugs out of their shared apartment. Yes, I can call a therapist, but I know my son pretty well and live with him every day and know that if he doesn’t want to be at an appointment that I can’t make him stay there, I can’t make him speak to a therapist, and I can’t make him be honest with a therapist (or himself for that matter). He mentioned one time that he thought he might need to speak to a therapist months ago - perhaps he was dealing with a specific issue at that time, I saw a therapist in the past, after my relative took their own life since I was having trouble dealing with that. Perhaps he was dealing with an issue that he believes he put in the past and no longer needs help, but despite being reminded on a regular basis that he did make that request and that any and all support necessary will be available to him if he wants to make an appointment, since that night he has repeatedly said that he is not willing to speak to a therapist. The moment that I feel that he’s a danger to himself or anyone else, then I’ll be the first person to drive him to the local in-patient facility and have him committed, but there is really a limited amount that I can do for a young adult that isn’t going to classes and grades are falling. </p>
<p>And yes, in a sense I implied that he has a family history of depression and substance abuse problems, but the issues stem from vary different branches of the family and the substance abuse issues are from relatives that he is several generations removed from and was not exposed to frequently. Although one close family relative did take their own lfie, there is no other history of mental illness in the family. </p>
<p>@pizzagirl/emeraldkity - my relationship with my parents is strained for a myriad of reasons of which their failure to provide financial help after I reached adulthood is pretty low on the list, so I honestly don’t know how much that impacted my current feelings. But I do know on some level I appreciated it. Being completely on my own made me extremely strong and independent. I am able to take care of most of the problems I encounter in life because I’ve had to do it for so long. So, yes, in a sense their refusal to help, did help me. If this was a physical problem instead of a mental/emotional one, then my stance wouldn’t be much different. If my son were confinded to a wheel chair - yes, I’d push him (just like I’d drive him to a therapist and hold his hand while he walked in the office), but I’d also be researching opportunities for jobs he could do while disabled and encouraging him to pursue them, I’d be helping him find places to live that would accomodate his disability… Just offering to allow him to lay in his room and feel sorry for himself and pay his bills for an undetermined amount of time wouldn’t help him at all. My goal would be to help him to find a path through life despite hurdles in front of him, just what I’m trying to do now. I’ve offered to help him research transferring schools, changing majors, pursuing options outside of school, I honestely don’t know what I haven’t suggested to him, but at the same time, feel free to think me evil, but I’m not paying to keep his heat on every winter because he makes the choice to go work at Walmart. If that’s his dream in life, I will provide him all the emotional support I am able and I will sit down and help him develop a realistic budget, but at some point he needs to realized their are financial consequences to that choice in life. </p>
<p>“the moment I feel he is a danger” If you don’t think he is a potential danger to himself, why are you checking up on him all day? He sounds very depressed and hope he gets some help very soon. I seriously doubt his dream in life is to “go work at Walmart.” Please get some guidance from a doctor or therapist.</p>
<p>@ strugglingmom-
Part of the challenge of being a parent, as you are voicing, is knowing the line between help and enabling, and it is rough to figure out. To me the answer is much like those who see someone who is poor and down on their luck and tell them the answer is to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, when they don’t realize that to do that you need bootstraps…</p>
<p>I understand your feelings about not wanting him to get dependent or assume he doesn’t have to stand on his own two feet, but to do that he needs to be able to get onto his feet.I don’t think his problem is he is lazy or looking for you to support him (as crazy as his plans seemed, ie being able to afford a house and insurance and such on a minimum wage job, it showed he wanted to try and do this on his own), but I also think he can’t at this point. </p>
<p>If faced with the same thing, I probably would tell my son that it is obvious that something is wrong and that I think he needs help, and that I would be willing to help him get onto his feet and back to school, but that he needs to be responsible, too. If faced with what you are, it would mean helping him find a therapist (and pay for it), that while he was in treatment you will support him, help him get a leave of absence, get the apartment sublet, pay for his car insurance (so he can go to treatment), and also I would encourage him to get a job, to be doing something, not to support himself but maybe show him a little of what reality is working minimum wage jobs. I also quite honestly would make as part of the agreement that I could touch base with the therapist and see what is going on, not the intimate details (those are private), but rather to make sure that what my son was telling me was what the therapist told him. If the therapist referred him to a psychopharmacologist to prescribe medication, for example, I would want to know that, to make sure I could see if my S followed through, and also to get a reading on where the therapist thinks he is. If the therapist told me he wasn’t doing the work, that he wasn’t progressing after a certain period, I would make clear to my son that either he try another therapist, or start making plans to support himself, with whatever consequences happen.</p>
<p>The reality of therapy is the person has to want to help themselves, and as long as I felt he was working through things, being honest with myself and his therapist, I would continue to support him, but if it looked like he simply was going through the motions I would make sure the consequences. </p>
<p>OP, you’ve gotten some excellent advice from people who have BTDT and you’re choosing to explain away most of what you’ve said that has triggered alarm in some of us. Despite the family history you know of involving depression, you seem convinced that your son is just lazy and trying to “work at Walmart” as a life goal and if you just shove him into independence, he will be just fine, like you. Except that your actions like checking up on him show that deep down, you ARE worried. No one wants to admit that their bright, amazing kid has mental health issues but the first step is to admit that and get him as much help as he needs so that 20 years from now you’re wondering why he never got it together.</p>
<p>One of the things about depression is that it can really cripple a bright, formerly motivated person from being able to take on the world to barely managing working at Walmart. It’s not laziness or selfishness, it’s ILLNESS. PLEASE take the advice others here have been giving you instead of rationalizing how YOU feel about it.</p>
<p>Chepar–what a sad story. There are a bunch of sad stories unfortunately. Your friends need to know that they are not responsible for the suicidal actions of their child. They did the right thing taking the child to a therapist. “Forcing” him to a therapist did not have anything to do with his suicide. And even the most depressed have a great “face” that they give to loved ones–because they love them and don’t want them to worry.</p>
<p>I have a friend who recently admitted to years of suicidal thought since she was a teen. She is fabulously intelligent, witty, college grad, married with kids, an entrepreneur with a great business. A winner in any book. In fact most of the time I see her she is totally upbeat but she says she works very hard at being upbeat. She exercises, eats right, does everything she can to remain on an emotional plateau that most of us would consider normal. She said she lives sometimes day-to-day. She was over 30 before she got real help. She’s done the medication route etc. She said up until her medical help that she thought EVERYBODY felt suicidal and that it was a surprise to her that most people actually felt happy a good part of their day. Her upbringing and family (I couldn’t hurt them even though I’m fine with dying) kept her going. But the “tough it out” attitude was a true detriment to getting help Listening to her was an eye-opener. But I thought about it–the kid who can’t see the blackboard and needs glasses has no idea that it’s clear for the rest of the class–same with emotions. When that kid gets glasses it’s like the whole world suddenly expands–same for my friend who finally got help as an adult.</p>
<p>Ditto to all of the advice. And please don’t dismiss the idea that he won’t open up to a therapist. Even if he sits there like a mute rock, a skilled therapist can talk to him and over time he can learn to trust the therapist. I have seen this in my family. </p>
<p>Depression makes people do things they would never do. I had to mentally remind myself not to be mad at my depressed family member or think they were lazy. It was infuriating when they would not get out of bed or would get in bed at 2 pm. I thought I was doing something wrong because I could not “fix” them or instill the right discipline. But it was a brain disorder. The right meds and help were a godsend. </p>
<p>I feel so bad for you, OP. It is hard to know the right thing to do. I think you have shared two pieces of info that make me think you should use your strength to force the therapeutic route.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your child was formerly very motivated. As the mother of two much less academically motivated kids, I wouldn’t be nearly as shocked. But people don’t do a 360 like you describe without some serious reason. Just like my kids are pretty unlikely to be one straight A guys without some major external motivation.</p></li>
<li><p>He, albeit for a short moment, wanted to see a therapist. Guys by and large don’t love talking at a deep level so I think there must have been a serious reason that doesn’t seem unresolved.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>You do seem close to him so I think that’s really helpful. Can you work together on a plan whereby he can drop out of school and live at home for a period of time with the minimum wage job he wants IF he agrees to go to therapy for the period? It isn’t quite the plan you are hoping for, but it buys time to figure out what is really underlying this very dramatic change.</p>
<p>Wishing you all the best in figuring out the best course of action. I really can’t imagine how hard this must be for you. </p>
<p>Is your son working now at a summer job? Depending on the job, managing that could be much easier for a moderately depressed person than managing schoolwork. You have a well-defined set of tasks, and supervisors and other coworkers to help keep you on track through your shifts. You have to be self-motivated to complete schoolwork. And especially online classes. Everything is probably laid out clearly, but still, the student has to engage and keep track of things, read the material, listen to online lectures, take notes, take quizzes and complete assignments by deadlines. Minimum wage jobs can seem a relief compared to that if one is struggling mentally.</p>
<p>I understand that this is very difficult for you. I used to think of mental illnesses like depression as not quite ‘real’ and that the sufferer was giving in, not fighting hard enough to conquer his internal demons. I know now my views were wildly misinformed, but it took a long time to understand. And still, sometimes my old views rise up in me and I struggle to reconcile things in my mind.</p>
<p>I hope you find a way out for your son. I know he wants to walk away from school now, but might it be possible to reason with him that he might feel differently in a year? That he needs to see a therapist to get the scholarship deferred so that door is left open if he has a change of heart. Even if he doesn’t really want to see one to get help for himself. And if you are lucky he may 'click with the therapist.</p>
<p>If you see his bank accounts, you would likely know if drugs could be the issue, as his account would be depleting for unexplained reasons. If it isn’t, then any drug use is likely not the worst sort.</p>
<p>Chepar, that is a terrible story. I would be blaming myself for not acting soon enough. </p>
<p>OP, you have been given lots of good advice and some new perspectives to think about. I am sympathetic to your concern that you son will never pull out of this minimum wage phase, that he is wasting his potential, but am alarmed by the fact that this is what he wants right now after being so ambitious before. If it were one of my kids, I would be very afraid and concerned. I would contact the college and get him some leave. And whether or not the official leave were forthcoming, I would let the child have the time off. I’d be urging and if necessary forcing him to talk to someone. </p>
<p>You mention you are very close. What if you changed tactics from being mad at him to pulling him closer and embracing him, see if he will open up. Maybe you can better intuit what is going on. I’d tell him that I am confused by his behavior, but I love him and will do whatever is necessary to help him. See what happens next. Maybe he asks to see a psychiatrist. Maybe he confesses he got his heart broken. Maybe he tells you he doesn’t think he is so smart or doesn’t want to be an engineer anymore.</p>
<p>Remind yourself that this isn’t the end of the world. He is still young. If this is an episode of mental illness, and this is the age it often manifests, you can deal with it. If it isn’t mental illness, if he is lost in a less dire way, then know he can find his way again. </p>
<p>Hang in there. </p>
<p>I had a beloved cousin my age who returned from college after the first quarter depressed and refusing to return to school. My grandmother was alarmed by my cousin’s aspect during a holiday visit and encouraged my aunt to get her to see someone, get hep. My aunt agreed, but said the holidays had been so busy, she was just waiting for things to calm down and planned to take her in January. My cousin didn’t make it that long, killed herself during the break, hung herself from a pipe in the basement ceiling. It was the most horrible thing.</p>
<p>@celesteroberts, I’m so sorry about your cousin! How heartbreaking.</p>
<p>OP, you’ve gotten so much excellent advice in this thread. I just want to reiterate that you cannot base your decisions on what your son USED to be like. He is different now, and you need to find out the reason. I pray that it is not mental illness, but if it is, he needs help immediately.</p>
<p>Tell me if I’m wrong… or if I didn’t get it all in.</p>
<p>But if it hits a nerve for you it is all a normal response. To the MAX.</p>
<p>OP–You are BEYOND ANGRY right now at your son. He was fine seemingly like “yesterday” and now he’s not.
What the heck happened to my kid? What did I do? (nothing)
You want to say “DON’T DO this to me!”<br>
You’re screwing up your future!
Why NOW? You have it ALL going on. Scholarship is sitting there to be had. Don’t do this. To us. It’s not only you.
TALK to me! Are you kidding? The minute mart seems like a good idea? What planet are you on?
GET YOUR S___ together! And GET OVER IT!!!</p>
<p>I really understand. I do. Pretty sure a bunch of us do. And we commiserate. In droves.</p>
<p>But he is not doing this TO YOU. It is NOT a personal affront. Do NOT take offense as hard as that is.</p>
<p>Excellent points, gouf. Every day, I have to remember my son is not doing this TO ME! The statement I shared earlier, “Just keep the ball in play,” has been the most helpful for me. That is ALL that matters! Bluntly, a kid who is dead has NO future. I know that’s harsh, but it’s the truth.</p>
<p>OP: I totally understand your not wanting to enable a slacker child. However, the fact that your son was doing so well before and now has done a huge turnaround is much more of an indication of mental health and/or substance abuse issues than of a slacker attitude. Although he’s not been very cooperative, it sounds like he is crying out for help. You’ve had some good advice above.</p>
<p>“And yes, in a sense I implied that he has a family history of depression and substance abuse problems, but the issues stem from vary different branches of the family and the substance abuse issues are from relatives that he is several generations removed from and was not exposed to frequently. Although one close family relative did take their own lfie, there is no other history of mental illness in the family.”</p>
<p>One doesn’t need to have a history of mental illness to have it. In any case, it’s irrelevant what other family members had or didn’t have. Look at your son now. You’re concerned; there’s a reason. </p>