Another shooting and protest

[MWolf]

Not that long ago, we saw three police officers murder a black man in full daylight in front of witnesses. Now imagine that you are a black man being held down by police at night. Now add the confusion of being drunk. Now think whether trying to get free and running was “vile and disgusting”. Stupid, impulsive, and a monumentally bad idea? Yes.

Moreover, studies have shown that being taser cause impairment to brain function (temporary). That is with a sober person. As for a drunk person - nobody knows. A person being shocked with a taser while drunk could easily respond with a lot more aggressiveness than they would otherwise. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9133.12173

Were the police officers justified in arresting him? Yes, he was in his car while drunk. Of course, if he was a wealthy White man, they likely would have sent him home, or allowed him to call home and be picked up, but that’s neither here nor there. Should they have tased him? Probably not, but that was the result of bad training, the fact that tasers are being pushed across the world despite the lack of actual research into the effect of it on people.

Should Mr Rolfe have shot him in the back after he had turned to flee. No. Would Rolfe have shot Mr Brooks even if Mr Brooks have no discharged the taser? Looking at the fact that Rolfe was already pulling out his pistol before Mr. Brooks turned around, and considering Rolfe’s past history of violent behavior towards civilians, that’s a good question.

I would also like to point out that the officers at the scene reported that Mr Brooks was shut during the struggle over the taser. They only changed their story when the surveillance video came out.

These were the people who were holding Mr. Brooks down - police officers who habitually lie on their reports. Is anybody surprised that Mr Brooks was freaking out and trying to escape?

Look at the first report at the bottom of the page. Pay attention to the sentence: "It has also been reported that the male subject was shot by an officer in the struggle over the Taser. "

https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2020-06-13/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-atlanta

The update was more truthful, but still managed to imply the the scenario was that Mr Brooks was holding the taser and aiming at Mr Rolfe when he was shot, rather than turned and running away.

[GKUnion]

@MWolf

Of course, if he was a wealthy White man, they likely would have sent him home, or allowed him to call home and be picked up, but that’s neither here nor there.

I know several wealthy white men with DUI arrests.

You really believe a wealthy white man likely would have been released?

If it was neither here nor there why did you bother to mention it?

If you were to contend that a wealthy white man could afford the $10,000-$15,000 to get his DUI case “continued without a finding” in court, while a low SES defendant could not, then you’d have a reasonable argument.

[GKUnion]

@calmom

In Georgia it is generally a misdemeanor, though can be upgraded to a felony

Based on circumstances that did not apply in this case (see https://www.healanlaw.com/blog/2017/10/3-factors-that-make-a-dui-a-felony-in-georgia/ for examples).

Correct, this appeared to be a run of the mill misdemeanor DUI arrest that rapidly escalated to multiple felony charges.

[jym626]

@MomofJandL

Letting a violent domestic abuser scamper off with a taser sounds unwise.

I think once an officer fires the training is to keep firing until the person stops/is down. 3 shots might not be enough, might be more than enough. Firing at a moving target at night you don’t expect high accuracy.

A violent domestic Abuser? Not that that is even relevant in this situation, but where is that reported?
Also, maybe this is minor and maybe it isn’t , but I don’t believe he “turned around” to fire the taser. He was looking/running forward and reached back with the taser. Will have to look again but I don’t believe he was even looking back when he shot it.

[hebegebe]

WaPo has an updated video that shows both the fight and the subsequent shooting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/13/atlanta-shooting-police/

At 2:58 in the video, Rolfe holding his Taser and chasing Rayshard. At 2:59, Rayshard turns around to fire the Taser in his possession at Rolfe. Rolfe shoots at 3:00.

[jym626]

@hebegebe

WaPo has an updated video that shows both the fight and the subsequent shooting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/13/atlanta-shooting-police/

At 2:58 in the video, Rolfe holding his Taser and chasing Rayshard. At 2:59, Rayshard turns around to fire the Taser in his possession at Rolfe. Rolfe shoots at 3:00.

That article is from 4 days ago. What is “updated”?

I did do some looking online for his arrest history, and apparently he was on probation and was abusive. Sounds like a he had lots of issues. But he shouldn’t be shot in the back. .

[hebegebe]

The video is updated from what was there when the article was first posted. It originally only had the Wendy’s camera.

[ucbalumnus]

@MWolf

Not that long ago, we saw three police officers murder a black man in full daylight in front of witnesses.

If you mean the Floyd case, there were four (now-ex-) officers, one of whom did the actual act (Chauvin) while the other three did not stop him (Thao, Lane, and Kueng). Lane and Kueng (both rookies) arrived first and arrested Floyd. Chauvin and Thao arrived later, with Chauvin taking command.

Both of the latter had significant conduct complaint records. Chauvin had 15-17 (depending on source) complaints in 19 years, while Thao had 6 complaints in 8 years, plus was involved in an incident that led to a lawsuit.

https://www.startribune.com/a-deeper-look-at-the-four-officers-fired-after-george-floyd-death/570885592/

[jym626]

@hebegebe

The video is updated from what was there when the article was first posted. It originally only had the Wendy’s camera.

What new video is there? Which is the new one? The body cam, dash cam and wendy’s surveillance video has all been available for several days.

[jym626]

There will be a live news conference at 3 pm where the DA will be announcing what, if ay charges will be filed against the officer(s).

[twoinanddone]

But he shouldn’t be shot in the back. .

So anyone running from police gets a pass because no one shouldn’t be shot in the back?

[jym626]

@twoinanddone

But he shouldn’t be shot in the back. .

So anyone running from police gets a pass because no one shouldn’t be shot in the back?

Read post#92

[GKUnion]

@jym626

@twoinanddone

But he shouldn’t be shot in the back. .

So anyone running from police gets a pass because no one shouldn’t be shot in the back?

Read post#92

I think you meant post #93.

If a suspect is fleeing police, who are chasing close behind on foot, and the suspect turns his torso while running to discharge a firearm at the officers, are the pursuing officers justified in shooting that suspect in the back?

[jym626]

@GKUnion

@jym626

@twoinanddone

But he shouldn’t be shot in the back. .

So anyone running from police gets a pass because no one shouldn’t be shot in the back?

Read post#92

I think you meant post #93.

If a suspect is fleeing police, who are chasing close behind on foot, and the suspect turns his torso while running to discharge a firearm at the officers, are the pursuing officers justified in shooting that suspect in the back?

No I meant post 92. It cites the GA law.

[GKUnion]

@jym626

No I meant post 92. It cites the GA law.

Got it. So you agree that the officer’s action could be legal, or do you believe he broke the law?

[jym626]

@GKUnion

@jym626

No I meant post 92. It cites the GA law.

Got it. So you agree that the officer’s action could be legal, or do you believe he broke the law?

Let’s see what they say at 3 pm

[GKUnion]

@GKUnion

Got it. So you agree that the officer’s action could be legal, or do you believe he broke the law?

@jym626

Let’s see what they say at 3 pm

@jym626

I suggest we wait to see what the jury says…

[natty1988]

@doschicos

I definitely think there is room to argue that he should not have been shot, that the officers did not conduct their duty well. I think things were bungled badly in several ways. Different approaches could have been taken. Nobody needed to shoot, nobody needed to die.

I don’t, however, understand trying to argue that Brooks shouldn’t have been charged with DUI. It would have been up to the court to have found him guilty but this was definitely a chargeable situation, IMO.

I agree.

[natty1988]

I know a policeman who lives on my street. He says he used to work for a police department that was so dysfunctional and messed up that he left. He says that there is more the police can do to be even better protectors of the public, and he says part of that is not overreacting and not being racist. I don’t think all cops are bad, but it was interesting to get a policeman’s point of view…he doesn’t believe all cops are bad, but he does say like in any job there are bad apples who ruin it for everyone and he has, in the past, worked alongside people who should’ve been let go a long time ago…

[natty1988]

@jym626

@calmom

If they need to catch the suspect, they shoot. That’s what they are trained to do

No, that is not what they are trained to do – they are only allowed to use deadly force in certain circumstances.

Here is what Georgia law says:

quote Sheriffs and peace officers who are appointed or employed in conformity with Chapter 8 of Title 35 may use deadly force to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon or any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury; when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others; or when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm. Nothing in this Code section shall be construed so as to restrict such sheriffs or peace officers from the use of such reasonable nondeadly force as may be necessary to apprehend and arrest a suspected felon or misdemeanant.

Source: https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-17/chapter-4/article-2/17-4-20/

I’d add that there are also restrictions on when an officer can use a taser – I don’t know specifically what those are in Georgia, but there were several officers charged criminally for use of excessive force for tasing protesters during protests over Memorial Day weekend. See https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/2-more-atlanta-police-officers-fired-over-use-force-during-n1229656 (includes video). So it’s possible that part of equation may be that the officers overstepped their bounds by using a taser in the first place, thereby creating a situation where Brooks could wrest control of the taser away from them.

The 2 students who were tazed in downtown Atlanta a few weeks ago were leaving a protest in their car. It was, IIRC, 8:13pm (still light out) and the city had just announced an 8 pm curfew. Not sure if these students knew about the curfew or not. They were trying to get home and were caught in traffic. IIRC, their vehicle was at a stop because of traffic. The officers broke the car side window, pulled the students out who were putting up no resistence, and tased them. Quite a different scenario.

[/quote]

See this is an example of police overreacting. Those students did not need to be tasered. They could’ve been cited or given a ticket for violating curfew. But, tasing them? Really? I’m not saying all cops are bad, but I think the ones who are bad, who overreact, mess up, are corrupt, etc need to be let go or else given better training. No job is perfect, but there needs to be accountability.