Anti Competitive AdCom practices

Applying to College
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<p>I posted this scenario on the other thread, but since this one is dedicated specifically to this topic, I’ll post it again…</p>

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<p>I know a student who is applying to Stanford, Princeton, and several other highly prestigious schools with absolutely no intention of going there. He already got into Georgetown SFS – his first choice – early action. He’s never visited Princeton, even though we live just a few hours’ drive away (more than realistic for a day trip), but he still bashes it whenever he has the chance, saying that students there are arrogant, pretentious, and wealthy – his interviewer gave off that impression, so of course it must be true of all Princeton students. He’s the president of the student government, which looks great, but the student government at my school doesn’t actually do anything – not that colleges would know, based on his application. His scores are lower than mine, but his GPA is stratospheric. Everyone keeps telling me it doesn’t affect my chances, but I find it difficult to believe that they’ll look at his ridiculously high grades and not find my (perfectly respectable) GPA a little bit pathetic. On paper, he’s a great applicant. In person, not so much.</p>

<p>I asked him, “If you hate those schools so much, why are you even applying?” His reply: “Because they’re Stanford and Princeton – what did you think?” </p>

<p>Because it isn’t as if anyone actually wants to go there or anything. Especially not me. Especially not for reasons other than the rankings. :mad:</p>

<p>Sorry, I had to get that out.</p>

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<p>^ The point of that story is that I’d love for some of those “anti-competitive” admissions practices to happen at my (private, rigorous, but not a boarding school and not a household name) high school. This student not only has no intention of attending those schools, but actively dislikes them. The other applicants from my school all have slightly lower (but still excellent!) grades, but would give a proverbial right arm to attend (and, in my slightly biased view, are probably more intelligent and less grade-grubbing). If this process were completely “fair”, who do you think should be admitted?</p>

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<p>At most of the elite boarding prep schools academics takes so much time, that there really is not a lot of time for the students to do outside activities that make them stand out. Thus, except for a few very talented musicians ect, most have the same extra curriculars - ie. newspaper, captain of a varsity team, head of debate, they all spend their summers in france or spain living with a family. To me, most of these applicants appear ordinar. There are many applicants coming from public schools across the country and ordinary private schools who stand out more.
There is something however that you are all missing about the elite boarding prep schools, and many of you would be frustrated if you were there. The truth is, that many of the students getting accepted to Harvard,Yale and Princeton are not at the top of their class at Choate, Exeter, Groton ect. The ones who are getting in are the ones who are very very wealthy and very very connected and they are taking the spots of many of their classmates at those schools who are not connected, but rather academic super stars or have exceptional talent. If you look at some of the school newspapers from those elite prep schools you will see the college lists indicating who is matriculating where. If you cross reference that with the culm laude lists you will see that most of the students who made culm laude in the junior year (ie. in the top 4% of the class)versus senior year which only requires top 15% - you will see that those are not the names that appear as going to those schools.
In Greenwich Connecticut for example, there is a great deal of wealth. The wealthiest hedge fund traders are there and some of them are worth over $100 million. Many of the students who go to Choate, Hotckiss for example have parents who not only are legacies but have been a fortune to their alma matters which often are Harvard, Yale and Princeton. In addition, many whose parents have not attended these schools have business partners who are on the level of lets say Carl Ican. There are students at the top private boarding schools who are frustrated because they work hard, have unbelievably high SAT scores, have high grade point averages, but see their connected classmates get in while they don’t. This is more a problem at these prep schools then people realize. It is not always a fair playing board. The regional admission officer or reader might be conferring with the college counselors about who will come and who wont, but the the reality is that probably half of the applicants from those schools bypass the regional admission officer and have their application read by the Dean of Admissions who is conferring with the head of the development office about a particular applicant.
So, it is not necessarily more advantageous to go to an elite boarding school when it comes to selective college admissions. Yes, it might be easiser to get into lets say Georgetown from there if you are in the middle of the class, but it could be very difficult for a top student to get into Harvard, yale and princeton when so many of a students classmates may be applying and many of them are not as competitive but have a huge advantage.
Also, there is the issue that a very large number appy. I heard that last year 60 students from Choate applied to the Univeristy of Pennsylvania and only a few got in. That is a huge number. At schools like Choate when it comes to Yale, Harvard and Princeton, about 30 or more apply early.
Many of the top students at the elite prep schools have to compete for spots with connected wealthy classmates. Also, there is the added problem that the ones who are not connected often look ordinary in the applicant pool other than the fact that they went to the elite prep school.</p>

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<p>^^^^^
true, many of the students at these boarding schools have connections - a lot of them are legacies at the top colleges in the country, for one - but kids at these schools with no connections also get a closer look than others do - i have seen it in every admissions office i have worked in. in a sense, we “know what we are getting” when we see a 10.0 gpa from exeter or a HH average from Saint Paul’s - plus, the counselors at these schools have the luxury of time to write us incredibly detailed letters of recommendation because they are only working with 50-60 students per year. </p>

<p>what is alarming is the sense that boarding schools do believe all of their hype and shove it down our throats. we know that the curriculums at these schools are rigorous - we know the work load is huge. but to claim that “our students work harder than any other students in the country” is ridiculous. like bearcats said, there are students who go to good public high schools and then go off to boarding school and have to step it up a notch just to be in the middle 50% of the class - but that doesn’t mean you are necessarily getting a better education or working your brain harder. </p>

<p>and, for the record, there are plenty of public high schools out there who toot their own horns as well, telling everyone that they are the most rigorous, etc…but the truth is, it doesn’t matter how hard you <em>think</em> you have worked - what matters is how well that work pays off in college but, more importantly, the critical thinking skills you have developed as a result of your hard work. i really have concern for kids who are working their butts off in boarding school and then get to college and do not know how to <em>think</em> independently and critically. this is a problem - one that many boarding and private schools are ignoring because they have convinced themselves that they are so darn great that they don’t need to change anything pedagologically.</p>

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<p>"the counselors at these schools have the luxury of time to write us incredibly detailed letters of recommendation because they are only working with 50-60 students per year. "</p>

<p>i totally agree, this year, we expanded our college office, having 5 college advisors for a class of 170…which averages to be 34 students / advisor…</p>

<p>“that doesn’t mean you are necessarily getting a better education or working your brain harder…the critical thinking skills you have developed as a result of your hard work”</p>

<p>i think it’s the opposite…in the past, it was sheer hard work, not much of thinking,here…teachers demand you to work smart…almost all classes are discussion based and teachers value our own thoughts and opinions a lot more…which is what i like about going to a school like this… you think about what you are learning insztead of just swallowing the information</p>

<p>also, i think kids are a lot more prepared for college after surviving school here …a lot of the past seniors came back and told us college’s a breeze…</p>

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<p>A “building” at my institution is a $25-50 million donation. You are telling us that a family likely to make that kind of contribution does not get special consideration in your review?</p>

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<p>The thing about the really small classes at the preps and Harkness tables too, is that those who can’t think are exposed pretty quickly. In my experience they’re not happy at such schools and tend to be the ones to leave. This is not to say everyone is brilliant or that there aren’t brilliant kids at publics, but how can even the best of public schools, other than magnets which select by test, produce such a homogeniously bright student body?</p>

<p>It’s that peer group that raises the bar of thinking and learning for everyone.</p>

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<p>drb…we would get a note from the development office letting us know they are interested in the individual, but that alone would not get the kid in…they would need to be just as competitive academically as everyone else in the pool and have their own merits. it is <em>very</em> nice to work where i do :)</p>

<p>bearcats and suze…there is certainly something to be said for being surrounded by peers who are at the same place you are academically all the time. however, that’s not how the real world is…after college, you don’t sit around a harkness table. there is a certain trade off between having the intense experience academically at a boarding school and having more of a real world experience at a public high school. my point is, though, that many prep and boarding schools don’t see things in this light…</p>