<p>"There actually has to be an extrasensory source of knowledge such as faith if we are to perceive God. We really have a binary choice here, and both are based on faith. Either we will not acknowledge nonsense (stuff that cant be sensed, like God), or nonsense is going to hafta get over our sense limitations and make itself known to us by other means. I mean, I am talking about a radical change in reality here, so that we can sense what is naturally impossible to sense. Evangelicals call this being born again.</p>
<p>I agree completely with you here. (Yea! We agree on something!)</p>
<p>As one who has had spiritual and even psychic experiences that changed my life, my faith is strong and no one can take that away from me. At the same time, I remember what I was like before those experiences, and I recognize that not everyone is in the same place or has the same experiences. </p>
<p>I interpreted my spiritual experiences differently than, say, the born-again Christians. I have a Christian friend who cannot understand how I can have faith without the bible. (Actually I was born-again for 3 years and read the bible extensively, but later rejected it.) I have another friend who is Mormon who can’t understand why I don’t accept her church as the ‘true’ one. Then of course my dad, if he were still alive, would have a hard time accepting that I am no longer Catholic.</p>
<p>I’ve also been in the depths of despair. That too is part of my life experience. We’re not all in the same place. We must coexist.</p>
<p>“hey are anything BUT strong if they aborted a much wanted child to appease an a##hole husband.”</p>
<p>Of course. Sorry I didn’t make that clear. They are strong in other ways, but obviously not strong when it came to their relationships. That’s what’s so strange - how could these seemingly strong women be so weak in this situation?</p>
<p>That is precisely my point. It is because they both bought into the pro-choice lie that they ‘should’ be able to have an abortion with a minimum of emotion, they ‘should’ do the liberated thing.</p>
<p>“As long as by th word “freedom” we mean the equal ability to struggle within the system, then I agree. But if by “freedom” you mean “equal power” within the system then I could not disagree more. Atheists have far more power in some parts of our system, though they are so very few relative to the Christians…”</p>
<p>I mean the former, so we are in agreement. </p>
<p>I disagree that it is because of the atheists that there is no prayer in public places. I don’t think atheists are that plentiful or powerful. Rather, it is the people of other religions who would rather have no religion at all than have Christianity forced upon them. I would rather my son go to a school with no religious teaching than be forced to read the old testament which glorifies killing and blood sacrifice, things I find offensive. I’ll teach him spirituality myself and not expect the schools to do it.</p>
<p>“It is because of their way of thinking that they were among the first people to push effectively against and end slavery. It is precisely why they also are the very first to push against abortion.”</p>
<p>True, and that is to their credit. However, currently they also tend to be pro-war. How do you reconcile that?</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>“Been nice, friend.”</p>
<p>Yes it has! Thanks for the stimulating and respectul discussion. Very refreshing!</p>
I think you can make a strong argument that the acceptance of casual, meaningless sex – the hook-up mentality – has not liberated women. Nor has the casual acceptance by many of abortion as a method of birth control. Both, in fact, have erroded much of women’s power, both in how they control their own sexuality and how they perceive themselves as being in control of all aspects of their lives.</p>
Very well said. I’d like to add that although I am opposed to abortion, I don’t feel critical or negative toward any woman who has felt that that was her only choice. I wish women could see that they have better options.</p>
<p>I see your point EK4, but to be fair, here again is the full quote:</p>
<p>
…the casual acceptance by many of abortion as a method of birth control.</p>
<p>I believe this is a real problem. In fact, I know it to be used as a method of birth-control. It is a very mitigating factor in women’s decisions to, not only hook-up, but the last minute and casual precautions taken when hooking-up, knowing that in the end there is a “final solution” to casual hook-ups.</p>
<p>FS, as a college student, do you get the feeling that girls involved in casual hook-ups are happy? I just think women have been sold a bill of goods that casual sex is fun, and we are all just like men. I don’t think most women are like that – sex IS wonderful with someone you love. But I can’t imagine it being fun when you don’t really know and love your partner and have an ongoing relationship.</p>
<p>In general, I think happy women are happy, others not. </p>
<p>But, to the degree that their happiness is not on a rollercoaster ride, hook-ups are a rollercoaster and from what I know it’s a lot more fun, if brief, flying down those tracks than taking the slow ride to get back up to the top where you belong. </p>
<p>Abortion, amongst other devices (alcohol, chemicals, etc), is a facilitator, there is no doubt about it.</p>
<p>Anyone who says different is a glassy-eyed “true-believer” not to be trusted on the issue.</p>
<p>“Abortion, amongst other devices (alcohol, chemicals, etc), is a facilitator, there is no doubt about it.”</p>
<p>I agree. Just knowing that abortion exists as a backup makes it easier to be less cautious. I distinctly remember the first time a guy tried to do something - I was 13 - and it was the absolute TERROR of getting pregnant that made me move his hand away and tell him NO. Abortion never entered my mind. It was not an option.</p>
<p>If I had not been raised Catholic and been taught that abortion was wrong, might I have made a different decision?</p>
<p>Hard to say. I was taught premarital sex was wrong, too, but that wasn’t the reason I told the guy no. It was the fear of pregnancy.</p>
<p>This thread had nothing to do with the government trying to impose restrictions on Ted Haggard. If anything, the government was kowtowing to Haggard.</p>
<p>It just amazes me that women like Katherine Harris support “kingdom government” or whatever they are calling it these days to avoid the T word. Last time we had a Christian theocracy on these shores, they were hanging widows for their property, on the grounds that they were “witches.”</p>