<p>Jenny, your story about math is spot on. I have friends who openly boast about how they are weak in math, and how their kids are too, having tried it once and not liked it. It infuriates me when I hear kind of callous attitude. Would they similarly give up on reading?</p>
<p>“I have not seen any kid who kills themselves doing mindless boring drills without some kind of external motivation.”
What kind of backward thinking piano teacher would assign mindless boring drills to a serious student of music? especially one who has expressed an interest in wanting to be a pianist? Why not assign more and more challenging pieces that are within a students capacity to learn, and encourage them to master them instead? After many years of having the same piano teacher, my son asked to be moved to the hardest teacher he could find - a Russian teacher, who had mostly asian students- because he wanted to see if he could learn to play the music he had come to love. She pushed him, not with drills, which were an instant turn off, but with real music that challenged him and made him grow as a musician.</p>
<p>Well, my kid’s teacher has sent students to many top music schools, and I mean TOP. I think she knows what she is doing. Within 6 months of switching to her my son started winning state and regional levels competitions.</p>
<p>To answer the OP’s “Do you force your kids to excel academically?” </p>
<p>What is <em>the</em> only group that has 12 year olds studying for the SAT…Asians. And I doubt they’re memorizing word lists because it’s fun. Hell at my high school the asians founded key club so they could have something more to pad their resumes with. Shortly afterwards they (I’m not joking) founded the Asian Club.</p>
<p>The amy chou method worked for the case I was talking about. And It does produce the IB diplomas and high SATs you said got her into Harvard.</p>
<p>My kids have never memorized word lists & have always aced vocabulary tests because they LOVE reading and we have always taken them to bookstores and libraries at their request. We have never bribed or rewarded them for reading of any academic successes (other than taking them out for graduations & having graduation parties). They learn for the sake of learning and the love of it. It shows in the courses they take and the successes they obtain because of their internal motivation. Would not have changed things for the world. S was in the middle of his class rank-wise, even tho he was a NMF and missed 1/3 to 1/2 of HS due to severe chronic health issues. He is HAPPY and fulfilled with his career and job; he was the top candidate and received 3 job offers for full-time jobs in his field!</p>
<p>@HImom:
To get better at something, not only do you have to play challenging pieces, you have to do drills to get your body used to those challenging pieces. For example, with sports. I’m sure Michael Phelps doesn’t just get his workout by racing with professional swimmers for a bunch of hours a day. He has to do drills, first focusing on his arms, then his legs. Part by part until he was good enough to combine all of it into a single stroke. Back to playing the piano, drills can be applied to all songs that are played, giving a musician the ability to adapt to new pieces easily. If you only practice song by song, when you are given a new piece, it may be harder to adjust and play that piece at the same level as someone who practices using drills. </p>
<p>You were blessed to have children who loved to learn so much (plus reading never gets boring due to the massive numbers of books). But other hobbies/activities are not the same, sometimes you have to do the boring, dull stuff in order to be better. And children will sometimes need encouragement. Now imagine if your children didn’t have a love of learning as much as they did (as may be the case with other people’s children), would you have let them ignore their homework, fail their tests and flunk out of high school? No, you wouldn’t, no parent would. But just because you are providing an external motivator, doesn’t mean that there isn’t an internal motivator. Every child is different, every person is different, therefore the parent must adjust their strategies in ways that would benefit that child the most.</p>
<p>UAKid: I’m sensing some jealousy towards Asians from you…</p>
<p>How do you know that Asian parents are forcing their children to memorize vocab lists? Are you an Asian parent? Do you represent the whole Asian race? Are you on personal speaking terms with every Asian parent in the world?
Furthermore, why do you say that this Asian group at your school founded Key Club just to look good on college applications? Perhaps they did it to help the community with service projects. Obviously you are not in their group but for some reason you know so well of their “motives” perhaps you only say so just because you are trying to push a point that has no underlying basis or evidence. And finally, why is it any of your business if someone started up Asian club? Would you have the same attitude if there was a Native American club or a Spanish language speaking club? Why specifically attack the Asian club? And by speaking in disdain about this Asian club, what do you criticize about it? Do you assume that this club is a bunch of Asians sitting around playing chess and doing calculus problems?</p>
<p>I hate the stereotype about Asians, its a stereotype, an assumption that favors non-Asians by making all Asians look bad without any underlying basis. Yes, there are some Asian parents who are stricter than other parents. But that occurs in every race, not only the Asian race. But for some reason, we are all made out to look the same and every one of us are criticized for something that may only apply to a select few. It’s not right</p>
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Confused. I thought you said your s wasn’t going to go to college. As others have said, if he continues ont he path he is on, by his choosing hopefully, he may well end up at a conservatory. Best to keep the doors open, as others have suggested. BTW, I believe what people are sayign is not to “let adcomms” make EC decisions, but to let our kids become well rounded, interesting kids. </p>
<p>Curious, you said your parents were, and have been, disappointed in you. What did they want you to pursue career-wise? What direction did you choose that was disappointing to them? How did it make you feel?</p>
<p>There may be great pianists who never did any drills. I just don’t know of any. Was it Rubenstein who said that, “If I don’t practice for a day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, my wife knows it. If I don’t practice for three days, my audience knows it.”?</p>
<p>There were these two great squash players who ruled squash for 20 years between them - Jahangir and Jansher Khan. They would put themselves through live hell in doing physical exercises that would break a world class marathon runner. They hardly practiced much squash. The motto was, I am fitter, hence I win.</p>
<p>JYM, my parents expected me to study English Literature and be a university research professor, like the generations before me. I am sad for them.</p>
<p>How do you propose other avenues like college are kept open?</p>
<p>As others have said in previous posts, and as you likely will, have him complete all the requisite coursework , take the standardized tests and AP exams whenever he is of age to do so, and encourage him (when he is maybe 16 or so) to formulate a plan and a back-up plan. He can have all requirements in place to go the college or conservatory route if he choose down the road.</p>
<p>He will have the IB diploma. Will he still have to take AP courses? They are not offered in his school. I guess there is no harm in taking the SAT. It’s an easy exam to crack. However, what will the plan entail? I am told that academics don’t matter for Asian kids, and the ECs he has are not good either. One thing I will not do is to force him to change his ECs.</p>
<p>You threw out somewhere, IIRC, that if it “came down to it” your s could go to a school like Cal Tech. For that to be a viable option, he’ll need to take standardized tests and have the necessaary prerequisites, just like any other applicant.</p>
<p>Taking the full rigorous course load in high school (including IB HL courses if those are offered instead of AP courses) and doing well should be fine for preparing for regular universities. If applying to regular universities, take the usual tests that they ask for.</p>
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<p>Umm, who said that? Or are only HYPSM acceptable, in which case it is difficult for any applicant to distinguish himself/herself academically from thousands of other applicants to those schools? But even in this case, a good academic record is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for possible admission.</p>
<p>Frankly, I wouldn’t want my son to apply to HYPSM, which have racial quotas. It will be his choice, of course, but if I raise him right he will for sure shun those. Berkeley or CalTech is fine. I am not really sure of what coursework is needed for that. Hopefully the school will know. The only academic subject that I help him with is math, for the Math Olympiads.</p>
<p>JYM, what are the pre-reqs? I am not worried of the academic ones as they will just happen. The ECs I refuse to worry about.</p>
<p>Academic classes don’t “just happen”. You have to select and take them. I have no doubt your kid will, but if you can entertain the possibility that he may wish to attend a traditional college, when the time is right, (its too early if he is in middle school) take a look at the college websites and see what their prereqs are, what SAT 2s he’ll need to take, etc.</p>
<p>If he is interested he will do it himself.</p>
<p>Actually, I think drills would have killed my kids’ love of reading and learning. They always considered vocabulary tests a huge joke as they rarely ever had any words on the tests that they were unfamiliar with. I think leading by example is greatly under-utilized and under-appreciated.</p>
<p>I have no idea what it takes to make a music protoge. Both of my kids enjoyed music and each played an instrument (S trumpet, D violin). They were told they could be much better if they practiced & S even enrolled briefly in private lessons. We did not push the issue or force them to continue when they chose to stop. We & they have no regrets and feel that if THEY had wanted to continue, they knew we would support them in whatever way they wished.</p>