<p>And I get that you don’t understand the vast difference.</p>
<p>And no, you don’t have to be manipulative. That is sad, really.</p>
<p>“I have to make use of every manipulative technique available to me to make him practice, no?”
NO, if HE is the one who wants to be a pianist, then HE is the one who needs to make the effort to practice. HE is the one that needs to show the PASSION and COMMITTMENT to a life of music .
Conservatories admissions officers can smell the “over bearing”, pushy Asian parents a mile away.</p>
<p>"“Oh, I don’t care how his interest changes.”
How thoughtful of you… not!
So what happens if he doesn’t make the cut at a conservatory? Or he changes his mind ? He’s not going to college?</p>
<p>
Nope. Harvard admissions officers know the standard, generic applicants and most of the “Amy Chua” applicants end up at lower Ivies.</p>
<p>Anyways, this is a great thread.
I think it is useful once in a while to cover the concepts of “bribes” and “incentives” again.</p>
<p>Make sure not to go overboard because then this invaluable thread will get locked!</p>
<p>So far we discussed two objectives:
- Is it better to apply as a cookie-cutter Asian applicant? (Chua Method) or apply as “you” (doing the ECs you like)?
- What is “bribing” in educating children?</p>
<p>Bribing not really meaning bribing but really meaning a reward system is nothing bad. Sometimes kids get lazy and they stop practicing or studying and temporarily forget about their dreams and goals (they are still young after all). I think it is perfectly ok for parents to try to get their child on the right track again and help them remember their goals by offering a reward of some kind. However there must be the the existence of an internal motivation as well as external motivation. If the child has completely lost all passion for an activity no reward can really them convince them to restart.
As in the case of IP’s son, I feel as if he does still have a drive for piano because of his willingness to practice so he can get more books to play and his love of music books. I think the reason he doesn’t practice sometimes is that (let’s face it) it can be kind of tedious sometimes. Either that or he played his old music so much that it isnt much of a challenge anymore so he stops playing them but when he gets new music he will want to practice more because it is more challenging and interesting because it is new. In this case, I think it would be reasonable to offer a reward to remind him of his passion. Eventually maybe his internal motivation may become so strong that he doesn’t need external motivation or he gets a job so he can fund his own music passion.
Let other people parent their kids how they want. You don’t know for sure if it will turn out or not. In cases of child development you cannot use one or two annecdotal examples to apply to other people’s children and raising techniques. Let what will happens happen. do what you want and leave other people take care of their own business</p>
<p>
I see.
Ask your children whether they are happy.</p>
<p>Lower Ivies? That must be heart breaking.</p>
<p>Oh, my son has a drive for piano alright. He would play the piano all day long if left on his own. But that doesn’t improve his playing. Practicing does. Which kid in his right mind picks up the most boring drills possible and then keeps practicing for hours and hours? Kids and even adults like to do things that are fun. That doesn’t improve the quality of the playing.</p>
<p>MPM, I guess if his interest changes he will go to college. Now, on the topic of practicing, I don’t know which circles you travel in but I have not seen any kid who kills themselves doing mindless boring drills without some kind of external motivation.</p>
<p>
That is completely fine if he enjoys piano.
Now Amy Chua method works with your child because he loves piano.
Well, I met many Asian parents whose children absolutely abhorred playing the violin. They had to. They wanted to play the trombone but the Asian parents thought it was bit “stupid” if you don’t play piano or violin.</p>
<p>Anyways, I was raised in Amy Chua parenting (my mother broke my laptop screen, I never had a girlfriend during high school, and my mother usually hides my iPods during exam times). But, she still respects my EC’s and she thinks it is important to stand out.</p>
<p>I guess what I am pointing out here is the parenting method is completely fine. Amy Chua doesn’t know a lot about applying to colleges, though.</p>
<p>Asian Parenting 101:</p>
<ol>
<li>You are not allowed to listen to iPods during exam seasons because the songs get stuck in your head. </li>
<li>You are allowed to call your son anything you want (no wonder you failed, you dumbass is a common one)</li>
<li>Beating is also allowed. (Esp. teachers with long rulers)</li>
<li>No girlfriends/boyfriends</li>
<li>Teacher is always right.</li>
<li>
Mom: What did you get on your test?
Son: I got 92.
Mom: Who got the highest grade in class?
Son: Someone else did.
Mom: ARGHHH!</li>
</ol>
<p>Mom: What did you get on your test?
Son: I got 100 this time <em>expecting a hug</em>
Mom: How many people got the same grade as yours in class?
Son: Other 3 people did.
Mom: ARGHHH!</p>
<ol>
<li>Some common methods:
-break your son’s laptop
-no allowance
-always read books on the bus
-4hrs of sleep</li>
</ol>
<p>Mate, screw colleges. There is so much more to life than colleges. Don’t let a bunch of adcoms decide your life for you. Now, you say that my son loves the piano. Well he didn’t at first. He only started to love it when he got good at it and started wining competitions and praise was heaped on him. That came from hard core practice which he hated then and still hates. Still, I am not like Chua. I would rather bribe than punish. Punishment is so uncouth.</p>
<p>@eastcoast: I don’t have children. But if I did, I would let them choose their dreams and I would help them accomplish it, even if it did mean doing something I didn’t like. This last year, I was really lazy in applying to colleges and filling out scholarship applications. My parents said that if I got good grades and finished up those applications they would take me on a very long vacation anywhere I wanted in the world. Was I happy spending hours on an essay about how I would contribute to a university’s community? Not particularly, but did it have to be done? Hell yea. If it weren’t for my parent’s “bribe” or reward really I wouldn’t have gotten a full tuition scholarship to my dream school as well as an awesome two month vacation. </p>
<p>But other people may have different views than mine about how they want their children to feel. And that is completely their own business. They are not your kids and you have no need to tell other people how to raise their children, regardless of whether you think that their children will be happier doing one thing or another. My parents have always said work hard now so you can have a happier future later. As a parent, you have to pay attention to more things than a child’s happiness, and their future, safety, security is one of these things. If your child was happier playing video games than doing homework, would you let them just play video games all day so they can be “happy”? No way! Parents sometimes have to get strict and lay down the law. Maybe one person’s style is a little more strict than another’s. That being said, as long as there is no physical harm or anything waaaay over the top, it’s all in that parent’s jurisdiction. Successes and failures in parenting are theirs to deal with</p>
<p>
That’s great. You are using the “carrot and stick” method.
Bribing has one bad side-effect: are you going to continue to bribe him so that he will get good grades in college? What if he rebells in college, when you are old and weak? By then, it won’t be Xbox CDs, it will be cars and cash.
Well, with good numbers, I think you really need top-notch ECs. (Whatever it is, do something that you * truly * enjoy. Don’t let your parents make your college application for you.
Why go to Carnegie Mellon if you have the numbers for Harvard? Differentiate yourself from thousands of violin-playing, ping-pong varsity, chess club Asians. That’s all I am saying.</p>
<p>I was raised by something even harsher than the Amy Chua method. Amy has everything right except that she isn’t really the one you should rely on when applying to colleges. Be different, unlike Amy’s kids.</p>
<p>(By the way, they are * really * beautiful!!! [Photos</a> | Amy Chua](<a href=“http://amychua.com/photos/]Photos”>http://amychua.com/photos/) )</p>
<p>You are wise beyond your years Jenny.</p>
<p>@IP:
That’s exactly what I’m talking about earlier. Drills are boring but they need to be done. So in order to help your son get better, you offer to buy him music books as rewards. It is a very smart strategy</p>
<p>I never, ever bribe my son for grades, or any other result. That’s totally non-productive. I bribe him to work hard. Results may or may not follow but so what? Working hard is the key thing. Will I keep bribing him after he goes to college? Very likely. But at some point his profession will take over and start to bribe him with high compensation. That’s the beauty of the capitalist world. As for colleges, you really need to get your head out of that space. You are not willing to let your parents make your EC decisions, but you are willing to let adcoms do the same. That’s a pity.</p>
<p>EastCoast: I think you are projecting your childhood on other asians. I was not raised like that and I do not know any other Asian who has been raised like that either. </p>
<p>I think by the time they are in college, students are adults. They can take care of themselves and know what they need to do in order to get what they want. Plus your “bribes” wouldn’t mean anything anyway. They would already have jobs. </p>
<p>Plus whenever you start something new, it is hard and things that are hard kids don’t like to do. Like when I first started doing math I hated it! My parents literally had to force me to do my homework. Over time however, with the encouragement of my parents, I got better and better. And then when it became easier, I started to enjoy it more. By that point, there was an internal motivation. Eventually hard things get easier, they get more interesting to do, and people will start doing it without external motivation. But it takes time! You cannot quit after the first week because your bored. If you have been doing it for long enough and really really hate it, then stop doing whatever it is (and truely hate it, not because your lazy). </p>
<p>And like I said before, I would rather do activities that I enjoy rather than those I don’t enjoy just so I can get into a specific college. It wouldn’t really make a difference either way as long as you do have extra curricular activities, if you can write about your activities with genuine passion, then the college will not care what EC that happens to be</p>