<p>I think it is important to hear directly from a person why they are doing what they are doing, whether that be the soldiers or a grieving mother. What the press reports people say and think is often erroneous. I have been misquoted over minor things (like a PTA fundraiser, for goodness sakes) in our local paper.</p>
<p>I encourage those of you who disagree with Cindy Sheehan’s actions to go to <a href=“http://www.meetwithCindy.org%5B/url%5D”>www.meetwithCindy.org</a> and read her own words.</p>
<p>Oh, and FF my illustration was with regard to the response of the grieving, not a value judgement on the nobility of the death. Sorry if that was not clear. I don’t classify deaths as noble or ignoble. We will have to agree to disagree on that point.</p>
<p>FF–you misunderstand me. My characterization of your opinion is based on your telling me that I can’t draw my opinion from informed research, as opposed to what some of the soldiers believe. If you really believed this, then you’d be left with the rationales I suggested. Obviously, you don’t really believe this.</p>
<p>Driver–Do people who have fought know the effects of war itself better? Absolutely. Do they therefore understand the politics better or(esp. while in the thick of it?) No reason to think so. It does seem, though, that politicians who have experienced war have a better idea of the price of it, don’t you think?</p>
<p>Mr. B, you need to look at all what the enemy has said about their motivations:</p>
<p>We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology. Abu Musab Al Zarqawi</p>
<p>Democracy, human rights, and freedom are all but hollow illusions, with which they tranquilize inhabitants. al Qaeda training video</p>
<p>Notice that the justifications go much further than the Iraq war or the “occupation” of Saudi Arabia (which, by the way we no longer do). </p>
<p>The intent of these people is nothing more than the elimination of those who don’t share their fundamentalist views. This is what a leading cleric said over official Palestinian TV: The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews even the stones and trees which were harmed by them The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew. This is not just a war to redress grievances, it is a war of survival.</p>
No, that is not what I said. I said that soldiers on the ground have additional insight into the situation that you will never have. You dismissed their ability to come to their own conclusions based on their insight plus their own individual research. Instead, you just assumed that they have been brainwashed into thinking what they were doing was right.</p>
Of the price? No. I don’t think so. They may have a better idea of just how much it sucks to walk around in the desert wearing body armor, or what it actually feels like to be shot, or nearly missed. But does G.I. Joe have special insights into the “price,” in terms of blood and treasure that the C-in-C lacks? No more than he has special insight into the global or political ramifications. FDR was considered a chickenhawk by many. What you said implies a spectacular lack of empathy and imagination on the part of our political leaders, which is perhaps what you meant.</p>
<p>Well, I think you’re mistaken. Someone earlier in this thread was critical of someone else for daring to presume to know what Casey Sheehan would think of his mother’s antics. I think that criticism is more aptly applied to those who presume to know what is in the hearts of the leaders who face the results of their decisions every day. They may or may not be wrong in the decisions they make, but it’s unfair to demonize them so, IMO.</p>
<p>There’s also no evidence that FDR was a less effective leader than WWI veteran Churchill. Nor that WWII vets Kennedy and Johnson were particularly sobered by “the price” when contemplating what to do about Vietnam.</p>
<p>The president could be seen bending over to peer at the floor of the Oval Office</p>
<p>US President George W Bush has sparked a political row by making a joke about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. </p>
<p>At a black-tie dinner for journalists, Mr Bush narrated a slide show poking fun at himself and other members of his administration. </p>
<p>One pictured Mr Bush looking under a piece of furniture in the Oval Office, at which the president remarked: “Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere.”
After another one, showing him scouring the corner of a room, Mr Bush said: “No, no weapons over there,” he said. </p>
<p>And as a third picture, this time showing him leaning over, appeared on the screen the president was heard to say: “Maybe under here?” </p>
<p>And this is the noble war our people have died for…I find that disgraceful…imagine being the mother of a dead soidier and seeing that…unfair to say anything about that I suppose…so much honor and caring there…</p>
<p>Were they occupying Saudi Arabia as well? Did they attack Afghanistan or Iraq? No, they have committed the transgression of not having an Islamic form of government.</p>
<p>CGM, the National Press Club roast is an old tradition wherein presidents engage in some self-deprecating humor, and get some digs back at the press. I didn’t think the WMD search in the Oval office was terribly funny, in fact a little dumb, but anyone who was truly offended by it was looking to be offended. He’s not Bush/Hitler, no matter what they tell you on the internet.</p>
<p>For those going to show support for Cindy Sheehan, you should probably be fully informed as to what she believes:
</p>
<p>Throw in a quip about “Little Eichmans” and you’ve got Ward Churchill. But at least Ward doesn’t believe that the neo-cons are responsible for 9/11.</p>
<p>He is a lying ■■■■■■■…sorry…and I agree with her in some ways…woohoo</p>
<p>I don’t agree with everything she has said, but the cause she is down there for, I do agree with…</p>
<p>Do you agree with everything your President has ever said, ever…do you agree with everything that Roberts has done and his findings in law, do you agree with Bolton, Frish, Delay… every thing they have ever said? Yet, I wonder if you support them</p>