<p>Thanks for the reality check, alwaysamom.</p>
<p>Britbrat, I still think you are misreading the Michigan site. I did not see any reference to a BFA (or MFA, as you state above) in MT being offered as a dual degree possibility with the school of engineering. The school of music, theater & dance may offer dual degree programs with other schools at the university, but a MT/engineering combination is not mentioned on the website. The website does state that some of the other dual programs may take six years to complete. Before heading out to Michigan, I would pull up the curriculum for both majors & study them carefully. The visit will be much more informative if you & your son understand all that the website offers on your own & use the time at the school for specific questions that relate to your son that the website doesn’t touch on.</p>
<p>I am not disputing that I am confused, but what from this statement on the MT page I am missing?</p>
<p>As part of the degree, students have numerous opportunities to learn about career strategies,audition techniques, and a wide range of performance skills. Studying at Michigan also presents opportunities to choose among hundreds of classes outside the performing arts. In fact, Michigan offers a rare dual degree program in which you can work on the Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree simultaneously. All of this combines to make Michigan’s Department of Musical Theatre a unique place for the aspiring musical theatre professional to begin a career.</p>
<p>You then click on degrees at the top of that page and it takes you to a page that leads you to this link</p>
<p>[UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Dual Degree Programs](<a href=“http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/dual_degrees.htm]UM”>http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/dual_degrees.htm)</p>
<p>As I said in an earlier post, if it is virtually impossible then why dont they just take engineering out of the mix and just leave the LSA and Ross school of business for a dual degree?</p>
<p>Again, I can’t PROVE this but I was explaining to you that I believe that either they are saying that a BFA in MT student could combine the BFA with a BA or BS in a regular major (not engineering)…just like is possible at NYU/Tisch. At UMich, that may take five years though. THEN, what I think MAY be possible is that engineering may be able to be combined with ANOTHER MAJOR in the School of Music (a music type major) in a five year dual degree. I am not sure they mean that MT can be combined with engineering. The school of music has many other majors besides its BFA in MT degree.</p>
<p>There are other colleges where someone can do a dual degree in engineering and music…I think that is true at CMU or even Tufts (may take more than four years, not sure). What I have not ever heard of is the combo of MUSICAL THEATER BFA with ENGINEERING. And even if UMich allows that (I feel doubtful but honestly do not know for certain), you will be hard pressed to find that combo elsewhere and so your son will need many schools on his list as the BFA in MT programs are highly competitive. UMich is one of the hardest to get into in fact. Thus he will have to consider other degree options or combos…I had suggested either a BFA in MT where he can double major or minor in a BA/BS in Environmental Science (not engineering) or do a double major in a BA school with a BA in Theater and a BA in Environmental Science, or go to school for engineering where he can double major or minor in a BA theater department (not a BFA one). </p>
<p>Again, generally speaking, a BFA is best suited to a student who wants one primary focus. A BA s best suited to someone who wants to study more than one thing (or could study one thing primarily if they so wish). A BA is appropriate for someone who wants options and flexibility. </p>
<p>I also feel it would be REALLY easy to call UM’s School of Music and ask: “Can the BFA in MT program be combined in a dual degree with Engineering?”</p>
<p>I have called and asked that general question and they responded with Yes. That is why I am totally confused and more value the opinion of someone who is there or has a student experiencing it so that we can make wise choices. Do you have a recommendation of a school that has a good BA program that we could explore besides the ones I have already mentioned, Penn State, Syracuse and NYU? He does not want to go locally to UCLA or USC or to Oklahoma where his family is to OU or OCU. So, do you have some other suggestions so that I can get off U of M and explore some other options?</p>
<p>I’m not sure what you are asking when you say “good BA program”…I don’t know if your son wants an Engineering degree combined with a BA major/minor in theater. Does he want a Theater degree with a minor or double major in environmental science (two BAs or a BA major with a minor)? Does he want a BFA in MT with a minor in another subject? These are all different and mean different schools. </p>
<p>Also, your question is confusing as you say “other BA programs” and then say “like PSU, Syracuse and NYU” and none of those are BA programs and so I am not sure what you are asking.</p>
<p>Also, while I try to volunteer many hours on CC’s many forums, in order to help many at one time, I can’t truly get into individualized help in selecting schools and so forth through volunteer message board posts. I also would need way more information about your son because picking a college is not simply by what schools offer my interests. I can’t do ongoing volunteer posts about one individual case to that level. I can answer some general questions that may be helpful to many readers here but not get into the nitty gritty of one person’s selection and admissions process. I would need to ask you more questions and then devote time to searching for schools that fit your son’s needs, interests, preferences, and qualifications. I can’t do that ON the forum.</p>
<p>I understand. Thanks</p>
<p>While I am unclear what degree or combo you are asking about…has your son looked at Brown University? It has an open curriculum…no required courses except in your major. Your son could major in engineering and then do LOTS of theater classes and they put on musicals at Brown and there are many very talented MT kids at Brown who have opted to pursue a BA, rather than a BFA path (who have the talent to be admitted to BFA programs). He could take voice, dance, theater, be in a capella groups, be in MT productions and still major in engineering.</p>
<p>A friend of both my daughters’ went to Brown and double majored in theater and classics and was the lead in the National Tour of RENT…to give an example.</p>
<p>I strongly suggest you ask the HEAD of the individual MT departments you are looking at and not "someone " who answers the phone in the office. Like MichaelNKat’s D my D spent many class hours every day in her BFA MT classes not to mention evenings and weekends at rehearsals and in practice rooms as well as homework. (sleeping? VERY LITTLE) She has a difficult time fitting in her Honors requirements bc her MT classes are scheduled on all 5 days and so far she has had ~17.5 hrs every semester including next fall dedicated to BFA requiriements. Those classes run nearly from 8 or 9-3:30/4:30 or so every day, give or take. It is very difficult to fit in other classes. The heads of these departments are probably the best ones to address your questions. JMHO.</p>
<p>Agree with the above!!^^^</p>
<p>Good point. I will certainly ask those questions directly when we have our one on one meetings with the admissions depts.</p>
<p>I would not rely on just meeting with the admissions office. I would talk to Laura Strozeski at UMich’s School of Music and/or contact Brent Wagner (head of MT program). You need to talk to someone very aware of the BFA in MT program.</p>
<p>I think your son still will need to explore and think about what type of degree program he seeks because even if UMich has a five or six year Engineering/MT BFA combo, most schools DO NOT. So, other options need to be explored.</p>
<p>Great idea soozievt. I will look at Brown. Cornell and Stanford have also been recommended, so I will look at good engineering schools that also have a BA program. Hopefully my son’s 3 weeks at BTP will reveal some good info as there are high school and college kids there and I am sure that they share their experiences.</p>
<p>Brown has more flexibility than Cornell or Stanford would have due to its open curriculum. I also think for a MT kid, Brown is better suited than Cornell. One of my kids went to Brown, FYI. I have been to Cornell as she was recently accepted to grad school there (but is not going there). My D’s friend did theater at Cornell but transferred into Tisch.</p>
<p>Ok. We found out when we visited Stanford that you apply to the school and not to a particular program. You do not declare a major until the end of your Sophomore year. Being on a trimester system, many of their students complete a Bachelors and Masters in 5 years total.</p>
<p>I agree with someone’s earlier statement about asking the heads of departments if this can be done (not just somebody in admissions). They likely don’t know the rigor of a BFA MT program, and I think in a lot of cases they overidealize the ability to double major with a BFA (especially in four years) in order to court academically minded students.</p>
<p>For example, Michigan’s website and admissions officers encourage double majoring and trying in four years (though they add that it may take longer). However, at the Michigan MT orientation last week, a panel of upperclassmen told the new freshman (and I quote) that it is “crazy to plan to double major in four years - it WILL take five.” And that’s going for a liberal arts type BA and not engineering.</p>
<p>What you just said about Stanford is true of most BA degree programs. In fact, that is a MAJOR difference between a BFA and a BA in MT/Theater. In a BFA, you are committing before entering and applying directly for admission into a specific program. For a BA, you are just applying to college and while you may mention your area of interest on your application, you have no obligation to do that major and are not admitted INTO the major. In fact, zillions of college students change their major in college and many enter under the most popular major of all applicants: “Undecided.” </p>
<p>This is one big question a student in MT needs to ask him/herself in choosing between a BFA or a BA program. Other differences between a BA and a BFA have been mentioned to you in the threads on which you have participated. Your son’s interests…wanting to focus on two things, have flexibility, etc…is typically more aligned with someone who should seek a BA path.</p>
<p>Side bar:
To actormcfamous…my daughter has spent many summers doing shows with a friend who is going to be in your MT class at UMich. I imagine you met her at your recent orientation. Her initials are S.M.</p>
<p>And with all that said, 5 years does not seem like a bad investment to me. If one plans to get a Masters degree they would be committing more time than 4 years so I am sure that it depends on the student and how much school they are willing or can afford to do.</p>
<p>Please make sure to understand that the “five years” that actormfamous mentions is to do a double major with the BFA in MT and a REGULAR BA in another subject…NOT engineering. I imagine to double with engineering could be six years. I also have no clue how the student’s schedule would be made because the MT Program has a lock step year by year requirements that encompass many courses (more than a typical major) and so does the engineering program. </p>
<p>It makes more sense to major in a BFA in MT and minor in another interest area (if one even wants another area) or to major in Engineering and minor in a BA or double major in a BA in Theater. OR do a double major in two BA majors. A student who wants to FOCUS (which is required in a BFA in MT or in an Engineering program much more so than in a typical college major) in one thing…should pick one or the other. If a student wants to equally focus on two things, a BA degree program is more suitable.</p>