<p>Just noticed they have a good handful of schools in the Top 100 U.S. high schools list, and wonder what’s going on up there. :-)</p>
<p>High income area–the first suburb of Seattle on the eastside. Lots of tax base with major office and retail complexes.</p>
<p>I used to live there- but it isn’t the sort of place I wanted to raise my kids.
It isn’t really a suburb anymore- it is a city in its own right- perhaps soon to have its own basketball team?
<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6123-2004Jun1.html[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6123-2004Jun1.html</a></p>
<p>My kids are products of Bellevue schools. Most of Bellevue is middle to upper middle, with pockets of lower income. They have an extensive website, <a href=“http://www.bsd405.org%5B/url%5D”>www.bsd405.org</a> , and you can check out individual schools for facts about each regarding ethnicity, free/reduced lunch proportions, SAT scores, AP tests taken, etc. The Bellevue School District has made every effort to bring the “bottom” kids up and keep the bar high. There is no gatekeeping on AP class enrollment as long as the kids have taken the pre-req and have the desire to work hard and follow an interest. There are support classes such as AVID. The district and its teachers strongly “encourage” taking the AP Exams (not required, but pushed) which is why you’ve seen their four high schools (plus one “magnet” secondary school) so high up on the USNWR list, as that is what is being measured. Graduation standards are increasing (i.e. three years of math may soon be going to four). The district is led by a visionary superintendent for about 10 years now who has had his times of love/hate relationships with parents and teachers due to fears of change.</p>
<p>The list of top public schools that you keep seeing is based on the number of AP tests taken by the average senior over the years. Since the Bellevue School District has put on a major push to make APs a major part of their curriculum, it has started to show up on these lists. If you compare average SAT scores with other schools around the country (another way to measure student performance), you will find that the BSD is not as successful by that measure. It’s like the USNWR rankings–it’s all in what you choose to measure.</p>
<p>I was raised in Bellevue! Unfortunately, I moved to California and went through their school system.</p>
<p>Dmd77, thank you for bringing a caveat to the qualifications of “that” list. I hope that the OP realizes that the list is a mere figment of the vivid imagination of one of the most misguided and lazier writers on education matters.</p>
<p>This page discusses the results of the AP/IB as well as the JM ranking system. I credit the BSD for NOT hiding the fact that the percentage of AP/IB students dwarfs the number of test TAKERS. A tidbit of information that the Washington Post “guru” has yet to appreciate or … understand.</p>
<p>See <a href=“http://www.bsd405.org/default.aspx?tabID=505[/url]”>http://www.bsd405.org/default.aspx?tabID=505</a></p>
<p>Actually, xiggi, I’m with Mike Riley (superintendent of the BSD) on this one (much to the horror of some of my teacher friends). I think the AP curriculum is a good well-rounded well-defined national curriculum and a group of tests worth teaching to, given the fact that many teachers simply don’t have the time or inclination or ability to create an entire new curriculum on their own. I think a student is better off with a demanding, high-intensity curriculum than an easier one, even if they end up doing poorly on the test. I think more school systems should allow any student who wishes to take an AP course to do so. (Do I think colleges should treat them as equivalent to college courses? Not really. But that’s a different question.)</p>
<p>Since the BSD does not pay for the test, many students take the course and take the “practice tests” provided by the BSD for free instead.</p>
<p>
ditto, dmd</p>
<p>No one follows a college student around telling he/she “you can’t accomplish this”. It is a shame that the majority of high schools withhold demanding experiences from those who want them. As much as I disagree with the use of the Challenge Index as a ranking system, its byproduct is that districts feel the pressure to open their gates. Hopefully, the teachers can keep pace with their preparation and continue to hold the bar high.</p>
<p>Well, I happen to think that a very large number of the available AP tests are simply toys to boost GPA. I believe that the fact that students do not bother to take the tests speaks volumes about the intent and the integriity of the school that fail to make the test a mandatory part of the course. Without the corroborating tests, the AP classes are yet another tool in the arsenal of smoke and mirrors used by high schools. </p>
<p>A school could offer 35-40 AP courses and do well in the JM ranking all the while being totally unable to reach an average 500 on any part of the SAT. Too many such schools graduate students who will need remedial classes in English and Math at less than competitive colleges. </p>
<p>The AP program started has a reasonable proposal fifty years ago, but has since sunk to a questionable level, as strongly evidenced by its highly dubious additions. I’m still very curious how courses such AP Italian, Chinese, Japanese, and Russian Language fit in a typical high school curriculum and how many qualified teachers will be found in “normal” high schools in the United States. Forgive me for sneering at the notion that a school that fails to teach English or Math at a decent would be “improved” by teaching Japanese or Russian. </p>
<p>If the objective is to allow students to demonstrate abilities that are not germane the high school and earn college credit, so be it. However, then the College Board should arrange its testing OUTSIDE the school year. Why it has become acceptable to force students to devote Saturdays for SATs while this boondoggle of a program is permitted to monopolize high schools for two full weeks in May is one of the most puzzling accomplishments of the Princeton boys. </p>
<p>From my vantage point, it’s about time for high school to focus on a HIGH SCHOOL curriculum and stop pretending to be a Junior College by offering watered down college classes all the while failing to deliver the most basic education to the overwhelming majority of the population. As long as this will continue, we’ll have this amazing situation of more than 40% of our high schools students graduating with an A average and an equal number of quasi illiterates.</p>
<p>I live “next door” to Bellevue and graduated from a Bellevue high school MANY MANY years ago. Good schools then and good schools now. However, while Bellevue gets the rankings, the district I’m in consistently scores higher on standardized tests. Bellevue offers more AP classes and really pushes kids to take those AP classes, it has become quite a numbers game. Seeing this up close and personal, the USNWR ranking doesn’t necessarily mean much.</p>
<p>*I believe that the fact that students do not bother to take the tests speaks volumes about the intent and the integriity of the school that fail to make the test a mandatory part of the course. Without the corroborating tests, the AP classes are yet another tool in the arsenal of smoke and mirrors used by high schools. *</p>
<p>I disagree
The Newsweek list of schools is essentially a list of schools where students take AP tests.Doesn’t say anything about their scores, just the tests, and in districts where schools are ranked by tests taken, pressure is put on schools to have students take the tests and the classes whether that is educationally sound or not.
My D is taking two classes that are AP level, one is marine science class, that after looking at her homework, is easily as rigorous as a college class. ( but it is not designated AP) The other class is an AP Euro class, at a school where many students recieve 4s & 5s on the tests.
I see number of AP tests as a class issue. First, they cost $82 frigging dollars! ALthough it was short sighted, we had to limit the number of colleges that older D applied to because of cost, and that was usually HALF the price of taking an AP test, which we would not have used for college credit anyway because it was important to have the class at her college.</p>
<p>I am curious whether Bellevue subsidizes the cost of AP tests for students, it is one of the wealthier districts however, and schools where students drive Hummers and Range Rovers to school, may not have as much difficulty getting students to take AP tests as a school where 40% of students are on free/reduced lunch.</p>
<p>I believe in students taking the most rigourous class appropriate. Since my D was in special education a couple years ago, and since she is struggling to stay with her classload, I am not sure whether taking such difficult classes is actually appropriate for her, but since the class is not “dumbed” down, as evidenced by the scores that students get who take the test ( and the colleges to which they are admitted), I think that open enrollment is a great idea, and the only way she could have taken the class given her previous history .
To me, the test is not critical, if students want to take it fine, they may be looking at a school where they want to test out of courses to save money or to skip courses. It may improve their applications to schools that expect to see AP scores, but everyone is not in that circumstance.
But to me the important piece is that my daughter is in a very challenging class,however the money for the test is an issue, she is already taking a month of tests with the WASL, and a practice PSAT, she has learning disabilties that greatly interfere with test performance, and she is not applying to a college that expects to see AP classes and tests on students records.
So while I do value some of the things the Bellevue District is doing, I don’t think that having a lot of students take AP tests necessarily makes then superior to surrounding districts</p>
<p>Although Bellevue is one of the wealthier school districts in the state of Washington, the vast majority of K-12 school spending comes from the state on essentially a per pupil basis. While local districts like Bellevue are able to spend somewhat more per pupil than other districts, there is not the huge disparity in per pupil funding that occurs in some other states. </p>
<p>So the advantages of the Bellevue School District are not primarily from having more money to spend on the kids. For example, in the 2005-2006 school year Bellevue’s budgeted spending per pupil is about $8,600, while in Seattle the spending is $10,300 and in Tacoma about $10,000.</p>
<p>The advantages of the Bellevue School District come more from the population it draws from (relatively highly educated, high income) and the way the district is run. Full disclosure: we live next door to Bellevue and I don’t know the particulars of how the Bellevue School District does what it does, but it sure seems like they are doing a pretty good job.</p>
<p>EK: The Bellevue school that my kids attended has a fee-reduction program for students who need help with AP fees. I think they pay $25 if they are able. Some have the full cost covered.</p>
<p>I wasn’t talking about the weighted student formula or whatever- Bellevue I beleive actually has fewer dollars to spend than Seattle- because of more special ed students, more bilingual students and more low income students in Seattle.
However I was speaking specifically about the numbers of AP tests taken.
$82 is not an insignificant amount.
Its good to hear that some schools offer fee reduction, I know from reading other threads that other schools in other areas do not, yet the AP test is required if you take the class.</p>
<p>“First, they cost $82 frigging dollars!”</p>
<p>It is indeed a matter of money. However, maybe not in the sense we’d expect. AP fees are subsidized in many school districts or paid by the State. In addition, you may want to check the stories from the school ranked SIXTH in the JM index or another Dallas’s school (Jefferson High.) Students and teachers are PAID from $100 to $500 to take and pass the test. Incentives or bribes … it’s all in the eye of the beholder. </p>
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<p>$82 times 10 aps is a lot of money, whether or not you would qualify for subsidies of the fee. Especially because most people take the largest numbers of APs their senior year of high school, right when parents are going to have to spend a lot of money on college. I know that my family would not have qualified for cheaper AP testing and my district did not pay for AP tests. My senior year, in response to what i think was state pressure, we were strongly encouraged to take AP tests, which had always been optional. Many of the parents were upset, and the policy was rescinded. It seems stupid to me to take the AP test if you are not even thinking of using it for credit, and especially if you are a senior and thus it doesnt even validate your grades for college admissions purposes.</p>
<p>ec1234: The AP tests are a win-win situation for students. You don’t want to close the door on an opportunity that you may not be aware even exists at this point in time. What about a student whose chosen school doesn’t recognize a particular AP score, but if that student transfers, the new school does, therefore providing more flexibility in choosing majors, schedules, etc.? What about the student who changes majors a few times and needs elective credits, distribution requirements, or credit in the major that an AP score might satisfy? One of my children was able to pick up a rigorous minor during his junior year of college because his 12 credits (4 tests, 3 passed) freed him from taking general distribution courses. He had no idea when he left high school that he would need/want the credits. On the lighter side, one of his friends was thrilled with his 3 credits because he got to register before his peers and didn’t get stuck with 8am classes. You never know…</p>
<p>point still goes to schools with more money-
AP tests may be subsidized for some ( usually only free/reduced lunch students- very low income- not most of the students who take AP)
While PTAs may pick up the fees for some schools, and other schools build that into their budget, in schools where most students do not take APs, that may be a point of contention amid cries of elitism. When teachers are having to buy their own copy paper and kleenex for the classroom, even the $410 that it would cost to subsidize 5 AP tests could be considered a lot of money.</p>
<p>Just something that needs to be considered when judging schools. Test scores are only one piece of information</p>
<p>( This school that D is at now is first experience with AP- Older D school didn’t offer AP, and her college accepts few AP scores and encourages students not to skip ahead by using them- she knows students who have anyway and regretted it, because the AP class did not give them the same foundation of information, that the college class gave their classmates)</p>
<p>The easiest answer to the high cost of AP test is rather simple, but the message should come from the colleges: stop granting credits above a certain level. Not a score level, but an absolute number of courses. </p>
<p>The purpose of the AP was to grant Advanced Placement, as the name indicates. The currents system of credits, students entering college with quasi-junior standings, graduating in two and a half years, or pursuing triple majors are signs of pure heresy. High schools should be high schools, and colleges should be colleges. We are developing a hybrid model that only work for a few. Colleges are forced to become remedial schools for poorly prepared high schoolers while attempting to invent honor programs for the regular students. </p>
<p>All of this nonsense is really robbing students from a valuable experience. The AP, except for a few, are extremely poor substitutes for core college classes. They ARE what high school courses should be. The only reason they have become assimilated to a college level can be found in the continuing effort to lower the standards for entering freshmen. </p>
<p>You do not have to agree with me on this one, but ask parents of sophomores or freshmen how their children first semesters went for Math and English!</p>