Is this too much for a freshman? How difficult and/or time-consuming is this class? Does it involve a lot of writing?
My 8th grade daughter’s class was given a presentation today about high school course registrations, which will occur this month. (Already!)
She has already penciled in her top choices. I was surprised to see that she plans to take an AP class so soon, as I have read here on CC that many schools don’t offer APs until sophomore or even junior year. She also wants to sign up for Spanish II, Honor’s English, Honor’s Geometry, Honor’s Biology, Honor’s Earth/Space Science and band. She will also be in the marching band as an EC, which is very competitive and time-consuming here (traveling almost every weekend in the fall.) Our public school is average academically, but in a state ranked high for education. My daughter has been in the most accelerated classroom in her otherwise average middle school and maintained straight "A"s but some of her "A"s (especially math) are on the lower side. She is a voracious speed-reader with good comprehension and has a fantastic vocabulary (Lexile score in the range of a high school senior) but she’s a mediocre writer. I guess what I’m saying is that she’s a normally smart and hard-working kid, but I wouldn’t say highly gifted or driven. She likes to have some down time, and we won’t be trying to push tippy-top colleges on her, just nice, reasonably selective schools with good fit. Does this seem like a too-stressful schedule for a freshman getting used to high school? Can someone tell me more about this AP course?
The difficulty of any AP class and the course requirements is due the the school and/or teacher. There is no standard as to how to teach an AP class; the College Board only dictates what must be taught. Your best bet, if your DD has an older sibling or older friends at the HS, is to get feedback from current students. Failing that, ask the teacher or GC.
I will say that I am surprised that the school even allows this as an option for a freshman. While APUSG is not the most challenging AP class (IMO), the subject matter is generally a little bit advanced for a typical 13/14 yo, but your kid may be the exception.
Thanks, @skieurope, I’ll ask around. I was thinking along the same lines as you about the subject matter. On the other hand, she’s heard us talk about world affairs and other fairly complex things at our house all her life so maybe she’ll be ready for it. She really doesn’t put together thoughts in a sophisticated way in writing though, but she can do it verbally.
I guess another concern would be whether she would be capable of doing well on the AP test by taking the course when she’s so young. (Are the tests taken immediately after the course, or all AP tests a few years later?)
All tests are taken on a common date, which is before the end of the school year. The 2017 date for APUSG is 5/4. https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/takingtheexam/ap-calendar#examDate
It is far better to take the exam the same year as the course, although it can be taken any year.
IMO, this is an issue regardless of what the course is. AP courses are designed to be comparable to college freshman classes. Not all HS freshmen are at that level, obviously. And the exam results bear that out. 2 of the courses with a disproportionate number of underclassmen, AP Human Geography and AP World History, are also 2 of the exams with the lowest percentage of 5’s. https://www.totalregistration.net/AP-Exam-Registration-Service/2016-AP-Exam-Score-Distributions.php
Nobody but you can speak to your daughter’s situation/ability.
I am surprised AP Govt is available as a freshman. My son is a junior currently taking AP Govt (actually studying right now for an exam), and in some surrounding schools the course isn’t taken until senior year. I agree it depends on the teacher. Our public school has two who teach it and my son unfortunately has the one who doesn’t teach very well. The other teacher goes over study guides while his doesn’t even hand out a study guide. It’s been a good lesson for my son who has had classes come easy for him. He has had to study more and learn how to study without being taught in the classroom. I don’t think he would have been able to handle the class and teacher as a freshman.
In regards to the AP test, it is usually advisable to take the AP test in May when the class ends. Most teachers (again could depend) will help prepare the class and there is online help available along with study books such as Barron’s. A google search can give you reviews of various choices.
As a side note, my son also took Honors Geometry and Honors Algebra II as a freshman. He is more math oriented and managed fine. My daughter had much more difficulty with Honors Geometry and was decent, but not a top student in math. You know your daughter. If she is strongly interested in the AP course, and she won’t stress over a possible B, she could try it. There are plenty of strong schools which will take a hard-working, smart student such as your daughter!
This varies very much by HS and given subject. An AP which is exceedingly difficult for which the average student ends up with a C, D, or even an F and yet…a 4 or 5 on the AP exam at one HS may not carry over at another HS offering the nominally same AP course where students breeze through with As and yet, struggle to score 3 or lower on the actual AP exam.
For instance, at my public magnet, it was common for many HS freshman to take AP bio or if their math level is advanced by the end of 8th grade, AP Calc(AB or BC) and score 4s and 5s on the AP exams.
And whether APUSH or any AP course is the most challenging or not depends on the school/teacher and the individual strengths of a given student.
On the latter, if a given entering 9th grader has strong reading, writing, some research skills, and isn’t fazed by a slightly higher reading/paper writing load, it shouldn’t be an issue unless the teacher is overzealous about quantity/rigor far beyond the parameters of the given AP course.
You have a lot of good advice. One other thing to look into is if there’s an unofficial sequence of social studies AP courses at the high school. Students need to be taught the format of the AP exams, and how to write their answers. At our high school, it’s assumed a student starts with Honors World History freshman year, then AP Euro sophomore year. Those classes focus on how to take the AP. By the time a senior is in AP Gov, they’re expected to already know how to format their written responses. I don’t think it’s hard to learn this for a student with strong organizational and writing skills. Just might take a little extra effort to learn if it the teacher isn’t explaining it.
If you daughter is insistent on taking an AP freshman year, honestly I’d strongly suggest she limit it to ONE. Get a feel for the rigor of AP with a less chance of being overwhelmed. For some reason, APUSH is the social studies class with a rep as the heaviest work load at our area HS’s.
Thanks, everyone who has contributed so far. It seems that, in our high school, students are expected to take a government class in 9th grade. Students were given a list of 35 courses offered to 9th graders (to select seven.) No history classes were on the list…only Government, Honors Government and AP Government and Politics. Eighth graders are now taking US history and last year they had a smorgasbord of world geography (though geo was one semester and very superficial.)
I will ask around locally to find out about the relative rigor of the Honors and AP gov, and, if possible, who will be teaching them, if known. I’ll need to find out whether there would be the opportunity to take AP Gov later, and what are all the possible AP choices for the next few years. I guess there is some value to taking the one AP class and test early on just to know what that’s like…and I also suppose that if she gets only a 2 or 3 on an AP test in 9th grade, it won’t be a deal-breaker. The school gives an extra GPA point for AP classes (as I expected) but also an extra half-point for honors classes (which I didn’t know) so as long as she makes mostly A’s, a sprinkling of B’s and perhaps the rare C in these she should be fine, since we’re not shooting for ivies anyway :)>-
Absolutely nothing wrong with taking AP courses as a HS freshman!!!
Definitely take the best one available. There is no reason to need a regular class before an AP version. In son’s HS students had a world class freshman year then the best students did APUSH sophomore year. Likewise some students skipped regular physics and did the AP version (oh, and students did well on AP exams). If your school offers the AP course to freshman they obviously know some can handle it. Expect her to get a top AP exam score as well. She should be taught the material to do well- it does matter if she is a freshman or senior.
btw- colleges will calculate their own gpa and some do only unweighted gpa’s. Do not worry about college admissions at this point, go for the best education. Get her used to taking the most rigorous schedule she can handle. Starting “with a bang” will be good training and set her up for high expectations.
You know your child. Now is the time for her to practice pushing her limits. She will discover what she can handle and avoid boredom. Since freshmen can take the class the best students will not be in the regular classes. Worst case scenario is that she struggles and gets less than A’s. She can adjust for following years. btw- her junior year grades will be the last ones seen by college admissions- improvement over a rough start will show and count.
Remember- she will be ready for HS next fall. The HS allows what can be handled by students. One size does not fit all and they allow good students to do more- be pleased. There is no reason to “ease into” it or place limits. Let her learn as much as she wants to. She will be better prepared for college and future AP courses as well.
You are setting the tone for her future. Encouraging her to do more or be timid. How will she know her limits if she plays it safe? Now is the time for her to discover how much she can do. You will notice that in HS she will be taking more and more control of her life- including choosing her classes.
I like that, @wis75 …“How will she know her limits if she plays it safe?” Also, “Do not worry about college admissions at this point, go for the best education.” Wise words! I very much want to think our family is more about intrinsic rewards than prestige…and let the proverbial chips fall where they may.
My son took it in 9th grade as a full year course. Some high schools offer it as half year. It is one of the “lighter” APs and I believe it is very doable.
I doubt it will give her any trouble. Freshman here in the academic pathway do AP HG (full year) as standard freshman course. They do AP gov as sophs usually doing at least another 1, 2 3 or more APs. Gov is a grad req here so no academic kid who does it in school will do standard level.
Alternate view…my kid really wanted to take AP Modern Euro…but it conflicted with honors wind symphony. So,she took AP Gov instead. She absolutely hated the course…hated it. So I ask…is Government something your kid loves to,study? If not, she might want to look at one of the other government offerings.
I agree with thumper1 that at this age, the student’s passion level should be a key consideration. If she’s very interested in the topic, go for it. But if it’s only for the purposes of having YET.ANOTHER.AP. class, then I would question the decision. Especially since the class – due to the potentially heavy writing requirement – might be difficult for her.
Kids know, often very accurately, where they stand academically in relationship to their classmates.
So a lot can be learned by asking what course her classmates are going to take.
If all or almost all of her classmates who are on the same level she is academically are going to take the AP course, then it’s probably a good choice for her, too. If classmates who are inferior to her academically are also going to take it, that’s even more of an argument in its favor.
On the other hand, if the only kids who are going to take the AP course are those who are far above her level academically and/or have a huge passion for the subject, then it’s probably not a great idea for her to take it unless she too has a huge passion for the subject.
This may sound as though it involves making a decision based on peer pressure and group ignorance, but it usually isn’t. Your kid may not know much about the course, but some of the others do because they have older siblings or friends who have taken it (or taken the non-AP alternative). They’re making well-informed decisions. Your kid can ride on the coattails of those decisions.
Thanks for everyone’s anecdotes and input! I feel reassured. I talked to her again after school and she is adamant that she wants to try it. She said that just about everyone in her current classes (most of her classes have the same group of kids) are planning to take it. Someone here on CC wisely advised me not to have her take classes just because everyone else is, but at least this lets let me know that it’s not an unusual thing to do at this school (many of these students have older siblings who, I’m assuming, have gone through it.)
History/social studies comes relatively easy for her and she can read/absorb great quantities in a short time, so, if we are going to take a risk, I think it is a reasonable one. @Thumper1, what was it about the course that your daughter didn’t like? In our case, I think the teaching quality would probably make or break it in terms of it being enjoyable. Her class did a short unit on government as part of her U.S. History class this year…she was appointed V.P. and debated some issues in class and seemed to like that. I also think the very dramatic change in government lately has piqued enormous student interest, regardless of where any one student falls on the political spectrum…we have quite a mix of opinions where we live. Whether they think it’s for better or worse, they are seeing government’s imprint on history, in the making.
My daughter didn’t like a LOT of things about the AP Government class. A LOT. First…the teacher who taught it was a dud. Not particularly engaging, just droned on. Didn’t care bout getting the students involved in discussion or anything…seemed fixated on getting through the curriculum so kids could take the AP exam.
Remember, she wanted to take AP Modern Euro. That teacher is outstanding. Kids rave about his course…all the time. He engages the students.
My kid just found the course dull…uninteresting, and a LOT of work. She said that in retrospect, she should,have taken an honors course…with a better teacher. I should add…her class started off with 12 students…4 switched out after the first week. DD said that was the smart move.
I guess what I’m saying…your kid is required to take a Government class. Try to find one that will be a good one…not just a course because it says AP on the label. It might not be the best choice.
Thanks @thumper1, maybe she’ll have the option of changing classes her first week, if necessary. It’s hard to know who will be teaching the class…even if I ask around and learn what people think of various teachers, a lot of reshuffling of teacher assignments seems to happen around here all too often, sometimes right before school starts. I know the teachers hate that too!