Approaching Professors

Colleges & Universities University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>I think for some students it might be weird being in a lecture hall with hundreds of other students after attending small high schools with caring teachers and personalized attentions. I know professors and GSIs have office hours, although I suppose many of them don’t really want it. </p>

<p>How can a student approach a professor and GSI without the awkwardness? Besides just asking the professor how to do a hard problem, how can a student simply chat with a professor to establish a professional relationship that may be beneficial in the future like applying to grad schools or landing a research opportunity?</p>

2

<p>It is just a bullet that you have bite. Approaching a GSI is a lot easier than approaching a professor because there is a lot less formality to it (and plus GSIs are much closer to our level than professors are).</p>

<p>Going to office hours early in the semester is the best way to go, as that is when no one goes (making it easier for you)</p>

3

<p>Ya but what is the appropriate way to approach the professor without being annoying and stupid.</p>

4

<p>It’s a lot easier in upper-divs when classes are smaller, material is more focused, and you are more academically mature.</p>

5

<p>But what are we supposed to say? Just introduce ourselves and then what?</p>

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<p>Well, office hours are a given… you can regularly go to their office hours until eventually they can recognize you and even know your name. You could also email them once in awhile if you have questions or if you want to inquire about any open research opportunities, it’s fine to ask through email.
I think the best way to start is through office hours though. Come up with intelligent questions that make you stand out and not only questions that you think will be on the next test, etc, but those that show your interest in the subject. Don’t assume prof’s don’t like office hours, I think all the ones I’ve had actually enjoy their office hours since they get to communicate more with the students personally.
With GSI’s, it’s a little easier to just visit their office hours (most students don’t both to come), and ask for help whenever you need it… But, if you’re REALLY interested in the subject, I’d recommend building communication with the prof. more than the GSI…</p>

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<p>Is it ok to ask a professor during office hours about their research, not necessarily about a research opportunity but just to chat about what piqued their interests and what they’re doing in the lab?</p>

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<p>yeah, that’s completely fine… in fact, they’ll probably enjoy chatting about their research.</p>

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<p>What if I ask about the process of obtaining a Ph.D in the same field because I’m considering doing research as a career? Just asking about their experiences and things like that. Should I save those types of questions for an adviser?</p>

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<p>you should feel free to ask your professors and your advisers those types of questions. The more feedback and experiences you receive, the better. There are lots of professors who, in spite of being pretty busy people, are very willing to help out their students and get to know them.</p>

11

<p>I am a frequent lurker on other CC forums because I am starting to think about higher education with my son. I am also, as it happens, a professor at UC Berkeley. So, seeing this thread, I felt I should actually post. </p>

<p>If you don’t act awkwardly in approaching a professor, it won’t be awkward. It’s not awkward for us; we do it hundreds or thousands of times a year. We definitely forget how students feel about this, especially at a large place like Berkeley. That means we are often not that empathetic about the student’s experience or apprehensions, but it’s also helpful because if you just act naturally it will be natural.</p>

<p>Do not wait for upper div classes to do it. You will want to get to know professors for letters of recommendation, possible advice on classes to take, or graduate school. If you don’t get serious about this until you are a 3rd or 4th year student it puts you at a disadvantage. </p>

<p>Academic and departmental advisors, while essential for us and for students, are not designed or able to substitute for this. Nor are GSI’s. They do not know the field or its research like professors do. </p>

<p>You should also recognize that you have every right to approach your professors outside of class about professional/academic topics. It is our job to talk to students about this stuff. And contrary to popular belief, most of us (even at Berkeley) not only don’t dread it, we like it. We like talking about ideas in our fields, and everyone has an extra 30 or 60 minutes a week to do so with an interested undergrad outside of class. </p>

<p>Whether in a large lecture or small seminar, you can break the ice by going to office hours (you do not need to announce that you’re coming beforehand but there is nothing wrong with doing so) and asking about recent course material. If you found some idea from lecture interesting you can ask the professor for other basic reading material on it or how it developed in the field. You can ask them what research on such an issue “looks like,” how they come up with a new research question, how they execute it, how they know the research is done, what they do (i.e. publish) with it, how their peers challenge it, etc. We know you aren’t born knowing anything about this process and in everyday life we talk to people all the time who have no idea whatsoever what we actually do besides teach. We are used to it. If someone is respectful and eager that almost automatically makes for a pleasant conversation about it. </p>

<p>Of course, if you have a specific question about course material, that is also a great way to get the dialogue going. But it will usually not convey to the professor that you have any interest other than doing well on what’s required for a class. There’s not a thing wrong with that, but if you want to signal greater interest and make a contact that will last for more than one semester, you have to do more than that. I’ve had many students over the years who came to office hours several times with focused questions on course material, kept it at that level for most of the semester, and then came back the next semester to start talking about their broader interests in the field. That works fine too.</p>

<p>What I personally don’t like is when students ask, upon our first or second meeting, if they can work for me, if I can direct them to paid research opportunities, etc. I do not know their capabilities or true interests at that point so I am not in a good position to recommend them to a colleague or take them on for myself. It is better to talk about your developing interest in a field, how you can learn more about an aspect, etc. </p>

<p>The most important advice I could give a student would be simply to do it, to make the contact and go to office hours (detailed questions like this via email are OK but often get slow replies because it takes more time to type it all out than to talk about it in person). The first few meetings may not be very long but they still serve a very useful purpose. There are many different approaches that work, so you can find one that works for you. The ball is and has to be in your court because our assumption at a Berkeley or a Michigan or a UCLA has to be that a given student in a given class does not want any deep follow up. But professors are more than willing to talk to undergrads who are willing to do what it takes to be serious, even if they want nothing more than an undergrad degree.</p>

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<p>^ thank you for the post! it definitely helped :slight_smile: i am just curious, what do you teach at berkeley and how many years have you taught there?</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for posting this wcdad, it’s great to hear the perspective of a professor once in a while. I often feel that it would be awkward to ask the prof for advice on grad schools or research, or anything outside of class material. But I also usually dislike talking to advisors about it since most of them can be so negative and aren’t very inspiring when it comes to setting goals. So it was reinforcing to hear that prof’s actually don’t mind these type of questions (when comes to seeking advice). Through my own experience, I also agree that GSI’s typically don’t have the extensive knowledge on current research in the field that teachers do, and professors are usually the ones that really get me interested in a particular subject and motivate me come up with my own questions that lead me to read up on the literature of that research field. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to write the post and I’m definitely thankful of the teachers who really care for their students!</p>

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<p>wcdad, Thank you so much for your response! I had this fear that professors would be too busy to advise students. But I also fear going up to a professor and telling him or her that I’m very interested in a field to which later he or she realizes that I know so little about that field.</p>

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<p>Professors are humans too and can be annoyed by students. When is the right time to just back off and stop approaching the professor? Do professors have special ways of telling students “Please don’t come to me anymore, I simply don’t think you are smart and genuine.” wcdad, would you recommend a student to attend a smaller liberal or private school if that student desires more personalized attention? Too late for me, I’m already an incoming freshman. Yipe*</p>

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<p>dude if you wanted personalized attention, you would definitely needed to pick a private school (smaller LAC).</p>

17

<p>@Clear My Mind:</p>

<p>Well, if -you- feel you are benefiting from talking to a professor, you should do it and not be overly concerned with how they feel about it. It is not your job to make them happy; it is our job to help educate you, and this is not limited to class settings. All Berkeley professors are required to post office hours for a reason…you are entitled to go!</p>

<p>That said, if you are seeking to build a relationship with a professor, for advice or research opportunities or a letter, certainly you want to be sensitive to how your interaction is going. There are no universal secret cues; it just depends on how individuals communicate. I would trust your instincts about it. If it feels interesting and is progressing somewhere, it’s probably good. On the other hand, you are right that professors can get annoyed with students; what will always annoy a professor is if you quibble about a grade based on (e.g.) question wording, or telling them the concepts on the exam required too much extension from the concepts in lecture/readings, etc. This basically says that you blame others for your own limitations rather than working to correct them, and that you have a hard time doing things unless they were presented to you (“spoon fed” is the industry term) in exactly the same form. I always get seriously annoyed when students protest that an exam was too hard; part of my job is to separate the great students from the merely good, and an exam that most students find easy makes that impossible. Also, telling a professor all the problems you’ve figured out with the foundations of their field can close things off pretty quickly…you may be surprised but people sometimes do this in an attempt to show their originality and willingness to challenge. Those are great traits but it is worth considering that someone who’s spent their life on something might have some coherent thoughts on the subject as well. It’s an easy problem to avoid; raise all the problems and critical questions you can think of, just maintain a posture of being eager and willing to learn.</p>

<p>If a professor doesn’t think you’re up to some challenge you’ve set out for yourself, most will tell you so, e.g. “you have to consider that graduate school and an academic career in chemistry is grueling and you are competing for very scarce jobs against extremely smart and dedicated people all over the world…” etc. But if you just want a law/business/engineering school recommendation etc., most professors will (I think) provide one if you do some leg work to show that you’re capable of learning and hard work. </p>

<p>I’ve studied and taught at schools with huge variation in size, from fewer than 2k students to more than 30k. In my opinion the primary difference is not the amount of individual attention that is available at each kind of place; if you clear the hurdles, this is actually very possible at Berkeley. The main difference is in how much work the student has to do to obtain such opportunities. If you are the kind of student who is better off with people looking after you and having personalized opportunities presented to you, then a smaller school may be a better fit. But I have long thought (long before I started teaching here) that the benefit of a place like Berkeley is that it teaches you to assemble the relevant pieces for yourself if you are so inclined.</p>

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<p>Will you write me a rec? JK</p>

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<p>Sure - but it will be honest!</p>

20

<p>Thank you very much for the insightful reply. I am surprised that you wrote so much since most professors I have contacted write very short e-mails.</p>

<p>I realized that instructors hates it when students focus too much on grades and scores instead of the subject. I hope professors do not think that these confused little fishes(big academic sharks in high school)are completely uninterested in the taught subject because they are worried about getting a C or even failing the class since GPA is still a very big part of a student’s academic profile. Some more sensitive students cannot help but express their frustration to the one person who has the total control over their grades. But I guess that’s what separates a high school student from a college student. The college student can persevere and take a reality check while the high school student still thinks he/she can beg and whine for a higher grade. Then again, let’s admit that almost every student uses websites like pickaprof and ratemyprofessor to pick whom others think is the better professor from an academic and social point of view. We compare professors like how our parents compare insurance plans. I find it a bit disturbing but I accept it. I know some students who are trying their very best to maintain a 3.0 so they can pursue their new interests in another school or subject. Many of the struggling students cannot help but feel that many of these successful and intelligent adults are out of touch with the feeling of being rejected and neglected. Then again, it’s just a big reality check. Berkeley students should know that they are in for a challenge that may turn out to be unfortunate. It is inevitable for college students to avoid the feeling of walking the green mile over and over and over again.</p>