Apt. vs. condo - differences?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Is it reasonable to expect differences in construction, and particularly in sound proofing, between purpose built apartments and condos? What are some questions to ask a condo developer about construction details that would improve quality of life in a new building?</p>

<p>We’re currently renting a newly built apartment for weekday use and I am dismayed by the poor quality of a pretty expensive apartment in a very nice area. A new condo project was recently announced that will be built nearby and dh wants to consider buying a unit there. One difference would be attached garages and another would be one or two balconies that could actually be used vs. the Juliet balcony here. The planned finishes are much nicer, but my concern is about the structure and systems.</p>

<p>This apartment has problems including a very noisy washer, dryer and dishwasher, all of which are in the open concept kitchen/dining/living area; a loud HVAC unit in a closet with louvered doors in the same open space; floors that flex and cause the range to vibrate when anyone walks through the kitchen; and cheap windows through which construction noise outside can be heard on the top floor. We’ve been homeowners for over thirty years and I’m spoiled by the peace and quiet at home.</p>

<p>There are other factors to consider, but quality of construction and what that means for daily life in the condo is huge for me. Can anyone suggest questions to ask and things to look for as we check out the planned condo?</p>

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<p>Silpat, I remember many moons ago our renting an apartment which was supposedly originally built to be a condo. We had a heavy walker living above us, and it felt distinctly apartment-like. :(</p>

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<p>“Can anyone suggest questions to ask and things to look for as we check out the planned condo”</p>

<p>In new construction, ask if one of you can go into the neighboring unit and the unit above and play music really loudly while the other stays in the unit you are considering. That would give you an idea about real soundproofing v what the realtor says. </p>

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<p>The condo I own was originally an apartment built in the 60’s. It looks sturdy to me. My unit is on the top floor and doesn’t have neighbors on either side.</p>

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<p>In a rental apartment the appliances are often purchased in bulk and tend to be the lowest price/quality that the owner can get away with. In your own condo you can choose (at your own expense) whatever appliance you want. That won’t make a difference on floor flexing, however.</p>

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<p>I think it depends more on when the building was constructed (older is better) than on whether it is an apartment building vs. a condo.</p>

<p>When we moved from a house built in the 1950s to one built in the 1980s, we were horrified by how flimsy the construction was in the newer house. You could hear everything from every room, and my husband was convinced for the first few months that the floors were going to cave in because they were held up with beams the size of popsicle sticks (or so it seemed to us).</p>

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<p>One thing I have become more aware of in recent years and that bothers me when I’m thinking about some of the injustices in the world and in a frame of mind to observe “the rich get richer and the poor get poorer” is that when I research environmental issues in an area, so often the housing that’s closest to the spot where there’s something questionable in my mind is multifamily housing.</p>

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<p>There can be construction differences but you have to check. Specifically things like:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sound insulation. Nearly everything these days is stick built with the wood covered in dry wall with some insulation (maybe) between the studs and that isn’t much of a sound insulator. Main thing is the sound insulation between units; it’s easier to live with your own noise. That can be side to side - as in townhouses, which is fairly easy to do - and up and down, which is often ignored because builders don’t want to add weight and materials between floors because that means the entire structure has to be stronger. With townhouses, it’s at least more likely fire codes will require more between walls. I’ve seen sound insulation run from concrete walls and floors - which are the best - to nearly nothing. (Those high-rise condo towers going up are nearly all cast-in-place concrete because concrete insulates and takes up less space than steel so they can build more floors in less height. And steel has become expensive enough that the extra time to build with concrete works out.)</p></li>
<li><p>As part of sound insulation, if you have floor plans, look to see where HVAC and washer/dryer are located. Worst thing is to have the neighbors’ washer/dryer located next to your bedroom. You noted that HVAC in a closet is loud. If it’s not hidden away - like in a laundry room or basement - odds are you’ll be turning the volume up and down on your TV a lot. A third, less common problem is ductwork that brings sound. You want your ductwork isolated from neighbors. I’ve seen noise problem caused by duct work running next to other duct work and transmitting the sound from one unit to the next through proximity. It’s noticeable if there’s music - like bass - and your ductwork vibrates with the neighbors’ ducts.</p></li>
<li><p>Appliances in apartments are cheaper. You can pretty easily check to see what level comes with a condo. Problem is they stick in brand names that really are bulk quality, so you need to ask if this is a builder model. This is also very, very true of windows, sliding doors, etc.: it may have a brand name but it isn’t what you’d buy.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>The difference between condo vs. apt is ownership structure…not construction quality. Apt units are occupied by renters, condo units are individually owned. Apts or condos can both be excellent construction…or shoddy construction.</p>

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<p>I have learned from my grown kids’ experiences that one can also rent a condo unit from the owner, and this is not unusual. There are agencies that arrange the rentals (for a fee) and agencies that deal with the issues that arise during the rental (for another fee).</p>

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<p>^ Exactly. Too, identical looking multi-family residential buildings lined up next to each other might be apartments, condos, time-share, co-op apartment, etc., or mix of ownership types.</p>

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<p>Lots of condos are leased. Especially in Seattle where developers can’t throw them up fast enough to capitalize on " demand".
Many owners live elsewhere, although the condo board may limit the percent that can be rented.</p>

<p>However quite a few buildings have had sluggish sales, as planned improvements in public transportation have not materialized. ( rather the reverse) Since parking spaces are limited, some buildings not even having one space for every unit, the prospect of having to scout for parking can be discouraging for some. ( even more so if they dare park in front of our house, H will have an absolute fit)</p>

<p>My mother lived in a condo next to the Bellevue park. She bought while it was still under construction, as many do nowdays.
I advised her to evaluate other sites the builder had built, but my brother in law ( who knew everything) didn’t think it was necessary.
Because the builder was apparently counting on California weather, the materials used were not suitable for the northwest and the entire thing had to be redone.
But the owners bore the cost as the term ins had expired. It would have been funny if it hadn’t been so frustrating and sad. She had sold her home since it was too large for one person (& to save on upkeep) and ended up paying out more for her condo.
Beware of fees for building maintenance. The board thought it was necessary to change landscaping every year, and replace all the carpeting and furniture in common areas every couple years. ( the heating system also had to be replaced, again the owner had to pay)
Several units were held by local companies/countries, for their employees to stay in for months at a time. Some condos are even rented out for Air bnb, although some jurisdictions are cracking down on that.</p>

<p>I’ve seen lots of local buildings changed to apts when condo sales are sluggish, but also long term renters kicked out when owners change hands and want to triple the rent.</p>

<p>Still some very nice small apartments however. My D lives in an apartment complex that consists of about 7 one story buildings divided into two units each. She has a place to plant a garden and doesnt have anyone above or below her!
It seems to have been built in the 40’s or maybe even the '20’s going by style of interior moldings and style of doors.
They’ve lived there for several years, and luckily the owner seems to want to keep it as is, instead of installing skylights and recycled glass countertops & increasing the rent.</p>

<p>Unlike these folks who bought a building that had been owned by a single family for generations and are now in a hurry to evict.
They can give any tenant only 20 days to find a new place.
<a href=“http://www.tenantsunion.org/en/news/tenants-picket-goodman-real-estate-to-stop-displacement”>http://www.tenantsunion.org/en/news/tenants-picket-goodman-real-estate-to-stop-displacement&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>We are unlikely to move, but if we did sell our house, I would probably look for a townhouse style condo, or if I didnt have that much mobility, a condo in an older building, that was throughly soundproofed.
( or we could make our detached garage into a little flat and rent out the house, so I can keep my garden)</p>

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<p>This isn’t about construction, but relates to what @Marian mentioned above. Make sure the condo association limits the number of renters and unrelated occupants permitted, and find out what percentage of the condo units may be rented. Our 400 unit condo building limits renters to 25% of the units, and there is a long waiting list. The vast majority of noise complaints and other immaturity/inconsiderate/inappropriate behavior issues are about renters. </p>

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<p>Post #8 has it exactly right. It’s possible to improve the sound transmission between apartments, or between rooms, but it costs money many developers (of both apartments and condos) don’t like to spend. If you really want to reduce sound transmission you need to decouple walls from each other (staggered studs) and ceilings from floors (usually done with resilient channels for the ceiling.) There are also special dry walls with layers imbedded in them that help with sound transmission. One brand is called “QuietRock”.</p>

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<p>Our S rents a condo and likes that most of the folks in the buildings are owners and it seems quieter and less transient than apartment buildings he considered renting from. Agree the difference is in the ownership structure. Condos have individual units owned by each person and have a condo association that has rules for the condo. Apartments have been known to be sold by the unit here and there but are often one person or company owns the entire building and rents it out. Construction depends on the code at the time and what the builders were trying to achieve.</p>

<p>We lived in an apartment that had poured concrete walls and ceilings. It was pretty quiet, except for street noise if you left the windows over the street open. You generally couldn’t hear the folks on either side of you or above or below you. We also had a washer and dryer down the hall for everyone’s communal use (needed to feed coins). Son’s condo rental has a washer and dryer unit in his dwelling, as I believe all of the other condos in his building do.</p>

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<p>Also check out the ventilation. Years ago, we rented a condo from an owner, and there was a smoker next door. She might as well have been in the room with us.</p>

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<p>The ventilation issue can be a problem in an apartment OR a condo. S had to move from the condo he rented originally because there was a smoker SOMEWHERE in the building and it made him cough and wheeze. He caulked the entire unit but couldn’t keep the smoke out and ended up moving. The landlord was kind and didn’t charge him for ending the lease early. He loves the condo he is currently renting and doesn’t seem to have anyone that smokes and gets their smoke into his unit in the newer building.</p>

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<p>Great advice, thank you all.</p>

<p>I guess we’re lucky because the company that owns these new apartments does not permit smoking at all. I’ll make a note to add that to my list of questions.</p>

<p>BunsenBurner, that’s a great idea to check for sound transmission. We will certainly do that.</p>

<p>Deborah T, I hate that your condo experience was no better than our apartment as far as structural quality; I really hoped condos would be built better. There’s a condo in the next small town (all of these towns are mainly bedroom communities of the nearby city) that’s about 10 years old. It has a good reputation and we discussed renting a unit there, but nothing was available when we were looking except for a unit on the ground floor with never replaced carpet and other deferred maintenance. Another condo was planned by the same company, across the street, but they changed it to an apartment complex after the real estate crash. Those apartments have numerous complaints posted online about noise and other issues, and residents say there’s a big difference in the quality of construction.</p>

<p>HiMom, I do worry about ventilation and not just because of smokers. We live in a humid climate and have always been careful about not oversizing our A/C so that it will run enough to dehumidify (even before we had high SEER two stage systems.) I’ve tended to spend extra on things like UV lights and 5" media filter systems for the HVAC, and don’t know if that will be feasible in a condo. Here at this apartment, I’ve had to run the A/C on a much lower temp setting than usual just to deal with the humidity.</p>

<p>I realize as owners we could replace the appliances in the condo. It was a bit of a shock to read that the developer plans to use what I consider big box store appliances instead of Viking or Wolf/SubZero when the condo prices are comparable to single family homes of similar or even larger size in the same area. Dh loves the floor plan for the largest units, about 2800 sq. ft., which are priced >$1MM. To me those seems like big city prices and just can’t be justified. We’d end up even higher if we have them continue the hardwood flooring into the bedrooms and do some other upgrades. I’m a little nervous about the fact that there will be fewer than 20 units in the new condo in a two story building. The monthly fees have not yet been determined, and they’ll be a big factor, too.</p>

<p>Dh is talking about delaying his early retirement; it won’t be “early” much longer. If we sell our house and move into a condo full time, I think he’d want to continue working even longer. SIgh…I much preferred the earlier plan for him to retire early, build a comfortable ranch house near D1 for about half the cost of his new dream condo, and spend time together creating what I hoped would be our last home.</p>

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<p>Why buy a condo so big? I think you should really think about how much space you need… As to construction, I would never buy a stick built condo unit, only a concrete one. Better and more solid construction and sound control, and no need to fear termites or fire.</p>

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<p>@Anxiousmom, for us that’s significant downsizing. We want room to accommodate our adult children & SOs when they visit at the same time. Our current home is quite large and while we both want something much smaller, the house we hope(d) to build is about 3600 SF which is still less than half what we have now. </p>

<p>This apartment is much closer in size to our 900 SF first home, and it feels smaller than we expected. Yes, we’re spoiled. No one needs so much space. </p>

<p>I do agree about concrete construction vs. stick built. That should be my first question for the developer.</p>