Most collages only “recommend “ 3 years but our college counselor says take 4 years. What do you think?
I say look at the top colleges’ websites and do what they suggest. If Harvard, for example, recommends four years, your child should aim for four years.
Here is the issue: virtually all of your child’s competition will be fierce. Not having the recommended courses, especially if unhooked, puts your child a step behind others. That step is incredibly difficult to make up.
Define “top”? 10, 20, 30, 50?
Looking at reach colleges like Duke, Northwestern, UCB, UCLA…
Most competitive applicants will have 4 or even 5 years of FL. Also, many colleges require FL proficiency to graduate, which can sometimes be shown through an AP score
There are colleges which “recommend” 4 years. If none of those colleges are on your kid’s list, then 3 years is fine. Otherwise, treat “recommended” as “required.” Note that, unlike other core subjects, almost every college will view completion of level 4, regardless of year, as synonymous with 4 years.
The other thing to keep in mind is that many colleges have a foreign language requirement for graduation, so potentially one can take fewer courses (or zero) in college, if one scores well enough on a placement exam. And, in general, higher scores on placement exams come from more preparation.
A few more things to consider–if a college recommends 4 years of FL, sometimes getting to a 4th year level in only 3 years can be acceptable (usually meaning student had FL in junior high).
If a student does take only 3 years of FL, consider doubling up in a another core subject area, allowing the student to show an extra interest in another subject. The goal should be at least 20 core courses (core = E, SS, M, Sci and FL), even if there are only 3 years of FL (or another subject area).
Northwestern recommends a minimum of two.
Level 4 would be more preferable than less than level 4.
I mean, most of these schools tell you that they are holistic and there is no checklist. Admissions feels like a mystery to most of us and we get frustrated that we don’t get told specifics of what we can do to improve the odds. But then when we get huge, neon sign like clues (ie most selective schools recommending 4 years of foreign language), many of us try to find the loopholes. It’s just kind of funny to me.
I’d take recommend to mean recommend, and ask what would the student take if not a fourth year of language, and why. If the kid wants to apply to Harvard but also have a release hour senior year and skip Spanish, that’s different than having to choose to drop the beloved marching band for one more year of a language.
One of my kids had six slots in the senior year schedule. The options were AP lit and comp, AP calc BC, AP econ/APgov, AP Physics, AP Spanish 4, AP euro, and orchestra. The first three were required to graduate, and we let her choose three of the last four. The other consideration is what would actually work in her schedule since most of those classes were only offered one hour of the day. She didn’t want to drop orchestra. She only took three years of Spanish. It was fine.
It may have been fine, but that student, had she attended Harvard, would then need to take more Spanish there by junior year.
Yes, it’s all in context. Sadly, most of the users who ask this question (and it has been often asked) give an unacceptable reason (listed below) for not wanting to continue. In general, when a college takes the time to guide students by suggesting appropriate HS preparation, they are doing so with the expectation that applicants will heed the advice unless extraordinary circumstances exist. Even then, exceptions exist.
Extenuating circumstances include :
• Applicant is an international student following a curriculum that does not align with the American standard. (e.g. UK)
• Schedule conflicts preclude the student from achieving the recommendations (in which case, the GC should say so in the GC rec)
• HS graduation requirements supersede a college’s recommended preparation
• For pedagogical reasons, the HS does not start study in a core subject until sophomore year.
• The HS discontinued the FL for budgetary reasons/staff retirement. Again, the GC should indicate this on the Secondary School Report.
Extenuating circumstances do not include:
• The applicant chooses to double up on one core subject at the expense of another core subject
• The applicant does not like a certain subject
• The teacher of a certain subject sucks.
Lurking, to get a definitive answer on this. Stanford accepts a 630-640 on a SAT II language exam to completely test-out of their language requirement: https://language.stanford.edu/academics/language-requirement
But in that case, I wonder if they accepted the exam score in leu of some set number of high school courses. That is, what if the student self-studied a non-native language, took the language exam and achieved the target score?
My daughter had a similar question her junior year of high school. At the time, she had to make a decision re. her senior schedule—a fourth year of language (APSpanish, which was technically a fifth year since she took Spanish in junior high and started with Spanish2 as a freshman) vs. doubling up on AP Science courses, which would have resulted in five years of science but technically only three of language. So, she sent emails to the reps for her two favorite schools at the time (both top-20 research universities). And she got two diametrically opposed answers. One said, take the language; the other said, take the science if that was where her interests were.
Moral of the story—don’t ask us, ask the schools themselves. But don’t expect an across-the-board answer.
Here’s what’s confusing to me. The common data sets say:
Duke only recommends (does not require) 3 years of Math, Science, History, and Foreign Language;
Northwestern only recommends (does not require) 2 yeas of Science, History and Foreign Language;
And yet some counselors are saying you better have 4 years of English, Math, Science, History, and Foreign Language just to be somewhat competitive?
I guess students should take the the CDS with a grain of salt and complete at least 4 years of all of the core subjects otherwise they be left behind in the admissions process.
BTW - D20 will have 4 years of all of the above subjects w/ 9 APs; but we were wondering if that 4th year of FL is critical? She took Spanish in 7th/8th grade (Year 1), Spanish 2 in 9th grade (Year 2) , Spanish 3 in 10th grade (not through her HS, but one on one, Year 3). She just doesn’t feel she has a great foundation for Spanish 4 and has not taken a FL class this year but if necessary will take an online course this summer and fall.
@EllieMom - I hear you. There does seem to be a lot of bad “common wisdom” on this subject. Btw, if you don’t mind me asking, which were the two schools where your daughter contacted the reps?
FWIW the admissions officer that did our Brown admissions overview specifically said they want to see 4 years. That’s the only top 20 school I’ve heard first-hand about and as others have said, I’m sure it varies. The UC system only requires 2 years and recommends 3 years, not sure if UCB/ UCLA would give any extra bump to someone with 4 years over 3.
@damon30 Hopkins and Brown. (Guess which school had which answer. 
)
^ I guess I can figure it out now from the answer above 
Thanks!
Regarding UCB and UCLA, UCs specify for admission a minimum of level 2, recommended level 3 or higher (or equivalent):
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html#lang
Some divisions of UCB and UCLA have foreign language graduation requirements listed here:
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/graduation-requirements/language/berkeley/index.html
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/graduation-requirements/language/los-angeles/index.html