are colleges racist?

fabrizio · June 30, 2011, 6:19pm

I don’t see how that proves that “Asians apply to a limited number of schools.” Rather, the list confirms my point that Asians are “overrepresented” pretty much everywhere. Asians were [url=<a href=“http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html]4.8%[/url”>http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html]4.8%[/url</a>] of the United States in 2010.

Penn State and Yeshiva are the only listed research universities where Asians are “underrepresented.” What’s more, even if you take out the UCs, there are plenty of “lower” ranked universities that still feature large “overrepresentation” of Asians.

As for the LACs, there are more that have an “underrepresentation” of Asians, but many STILL have an “overrepresentation” of Asians. Occidental, for example, is “lower” ranked than several LACs but has a much larger “overrepresentation” of Asians than its immediate peers in the list.

texaspg · June 30, 2011, 6:20pm

shrinkrap - Once you have a degree, you have an income and the freedom to choose the rightmate. Are you suggesting one needs to find the right mate in college or become a single parent?

What happens to all the black men that go to college? Do they all have to get married in college?

Kind of reminds me a bit about going to the college to get MRS degree.

beawinner - I am shocked that you have nt been invited to join the secret Asian societies where we consult each other to make sure everyone applies to Ivies and nowhere else…

Professor101 · June 30, 2011, 6:40pm

Here are the California Universities:

Stanford 16%
Caltech 42%
Berkeley 40%
USC 25%
UCLA 34%
UCSD 50%
UC Davis 36%
UCSB 21%
UC Irvine 49%

You probably figure out what I am going to say.

texaspg · June 30, 2011, 6:43pm

I am curious about UCSB. Why is the percentage low?

limabeans01 · June 30, 2011, 6:47pm

I’m not sure what constitutes ‘et al’ but there is a lot of info on the UC’s so I checked to see if Asian’s tend to “fixate on any of them”…they do!

Their favorite(by % that chose to matriculate) was:

<h1>1 was UCB, which accepted 24% of Asian applicants.(45% chose to attend)</h1>

<h1>2 was UCLA where 25% were accepted.(36% chose to attend)</h1>

<h1>3 was UCSD where 50% were accepted (26% chose to attend)</h1>

I did not look up other races and I do not mean to imply that Asian’s are accepted/rejected any more/less than any other group (because I didn’t check…more research needed)

Interestingly their favorite UC to apply to

<h1>1-UCIrvine-44% of all applicants</h1>

<h1>2-UCSD-40% of all applicants</h1>

<h1>3-UCDavis-36% of all applicants</h1>

<h1>4-UCLA-35% of all applicants</h1>

It is also interesting that the absolute number of Asian applicants was higher than the absolute number of whites at almost every campus (UC Santa Barbara is a noted exception).

It would be interesting to look at GPA,SAT, intended major, etc…
It would also be interesting to look at HYPSM to see if they apply in the same high percentages (I couldn’t find that info) or if their application numbers are more reflective of their actual population numbers.

johnwesley · June 30, 2011, 7:13pm

Fabrizio wrote:

I believe it’s already been duly noted how quick you are to parce other people’s replies down to the last letter (including the post that started this particular string) but, nevertheless have a completely tin ear when it comes to some of your own remarks.

IndianParent · June 30, 2011, 7:31pm

**I’m not really sure that the increased social acceptance of Jews today vs 100 years ago has all that much to do with Jews going to Ivy League schools and other elites, given that the vast majority of people in this country don’t particularly give a darn about elite schools in the first place. **

I was not talking about the increased social acceptance. I really don’t care much whether Asians are socially accepted or not. I care about whether Asians are discriminated against based on their race. It’s the law that I worry about, not the societal norms. Jews have done an excellent job influencing the law through their PACs. At some point Asians will do the same. Being a wealthy community they should have no difficulty in the influencing process.

fabrizio · June 30, 2011, 7:32pm

I don’t see how any of your quotes show that I’ve been attacking middle-class blacks. At best, I’ll say that #228 should be reworded, but I already did that a few pages ago.

It’s your right to think that I have prejudice against middle-class blacks. I do not, and I don’t feel you’ve convincingly made your case. As for “parsing,” you referred to wedge politics in one sentence and then referred to me in the next sentence…in the same paragraph. If you didn’t intend for those two sentences to be linked, you should’ve started a new paragraph.

johnwesley · June 30, 2011, 7:45pm

^^No, I called you a “right-winger” in one post. On some level you seem to equate the right-wing of the Republican Party wtih racism.

fabrizio · June 30, 2011, 7:49pm

According to Pizzagirl, “HYPSM et al” refers to the Top 15/20 LACs/research universities for a total of 30 to 40 schools.

You’re trying to prove that Asians fixate on any of the UCs by appealing to yield? OK.

At UC StatFinder, I selected the following: “Fall applicants, fall admits, fall enrollees, admit rate, yield rate for fall applicants, first-time freshmen who were California residents by ethnicity: 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1994, Berkeley, Davis, Irvine, Los Angeles, Merced, Riverside, San Diego, Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz”

The Asian yield at Berkeley ranged from a low of 45.4% (1995) to a high of 51.6% (2001) in those years.
The white yield ranged from a low of 34.9% (1995) to a high of 41.4% (2009).
The Chicano/Latino yield ranged from a low of 35.8% (1995) to a high of 44.1% (1999).
The black yield ranged from a low of 35.7% (1995) to a high of 47.6% (2006).

Seems to me that Berkeley is simply a very desirable campus among California high schoolers, regardless of racial classification.

The Asian yield at LA ranged from a low of 35.3% (1996) to a high of 42.3% (2002).
The white yield ranged from a low of 31.8% (1995) to a high of 41.8% (2008).
The Chicano/Latino yield ranged from a low of 36.8% (1994) to a high of 48.5% (2003).
The black yield ranged from a low of 38% (1996) to a high of 54.1% (2008).

Again, UCLA is simply a very desirable campus among California high schools, regardless of racial classification.

The Asian yield at San Diego ranged from a low of 22.5% (1994) to a high of 29.6% (2008).
The white yield ranged from a low of 17.5% (2009) to a high of 26.5% (1997).
The Chicano/Latino yield ranged from a low of 20% (1995) to a high of 24.6% (2009).
The black yield ranged from a low of 13.9% (2001) to a high of 24.3% (1998).

San Diego has some excellent grad departments, but I think it is fair to say that Berkeley and UCLA dominate UCSD. Overall, I don’t think you proved that Asians “fixate” on any of the UCs by appealing to the yields.

sewhappy · June 30, 2011, 7:55pm

beawinner,

Your post resonates with me. I’m white and have many dear friends who are Asian parents and I am always amazed by the generosity they display in sharing knowledge, tips, stories etc as we all journey down this path of launching our kids. It’s part of why I feel as I do. I have seen too much to not question what is going on. I think the bar is ridiculously high for Asian kids and it is not a situation I am at all comfortable with.

limabeans01 · June 30, 2011, 8:05pm

Fab, I’ve noticed you seem to get into a lot of “quibbles” with a lot of different posters over misinterpretation of what you said vs. what you meant. I’m starting to think you do this on purpose (and that you love it-hahaha!)

Anyway, can you please comment on the UC Data and the huge percent of Asian applicants?

limabeans01 · June 30, 2011, 8:06pm

but why do Asian’s apply to the UC’s in such huge numbers compared to whites when their population numbers are so relatively low?

I can tell by looking at absolute numbers that whites prefer UCSB (over 17,000 applied there, more than any other campus!)

19,650 Asians applied to UCLA, 18834 to UCSD, and 19,321 to UCI and 17,000 to UCB. Seems like a preference to me.

IndianParent · June 30, 2011, 8:27pm

What would the Asian preference for certain schools prove? I do believe that Asians have a certain preference for certain schools.

IndianParent · June 30, 2011, 8:29pm

**Sigh. No, it is not that the bar is higher for Asians. It is that the overall pool of Asians has higher scores than whites and whites in turn higher scores than blacks, so if you pull from a higher-score pool you’re going to have … ta da … higher scores. That is DIFFERENT from “requiring higher scores to take a second look.” **

Why should you pull from one pool vs. another? Shouldn’t you pull across the pools?

mokusatsu · June 30, 2011, 8:30pm

UCSC doesn’t even make the list. :(

Bay · June 30, 2011, 8:38pm

fab, if you were a true Libertarian you’d support letting the elite privates admit whomever they want.

fabrizio · June 30, 2011, 8:40pm

To the contrary, I find it extremely frustrating, and to be blunt, I hate it. If there’s a misunderstanding because my writing was unclear or phrased very poorly, then that is my fault. I’ll take responsibility and rewrite for clarity. But if it’s a misinterpretation because of something else…then it is not my fault, and I do not take responsibility.

For example, some pages ago, you and Bay both quoted one of my statements (a question). Both of you “pounced” on it without realizing that I asked it rhetorically and answered it in the NEXT paragraph, which was only one sentence long. (My answer was my understanding of what the pro-racial preference side would respond.) I found that to be VERY frustrating because it wasn’t as if I answered my question in the fourth sentence of the seventh paragraph; it was the NEXT sentence!

More generally, your question is “Why are Asians ‘overrepresented’ at so many universities and LACs?” Good question!

The prejudiced answer from xiggi is that Asians are [“subgroups</a> where the cultural definition of cheating is slightly different.”](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1155321-colleges-racist-94.html#post12799115]"subgroups”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1155321-colleges-racist-94.html#post12799115) As for a non-polemic, non-prejudiced answer, well…to be honest I don’t know. We’ve all heard ad nauseam from Pizzagirl and Crew about how test scores aren’t everything and how classes can’t be all STEM majors and violinists. So why are Asians “overrepresented” at so many research universities and LACs? Maybe, just maybe, they apply to more schools than just “HYPSM et al”?

IndianParent · June 30, 2011, 8:40pm

**Who told you that your scores gave you even one iota’s worth of entitlement to a slot? Not my fault that that mentality exists – and that recent Asian immigrants have not done as good of a job as they could teaching their more newly arrived brethren that high scores and the same set of EC’s don’t entitle anyone to anything. **

Isn’t that the fundamental tenet of objective meritocracy?

IndianParent · June 30, 2011, 8:45pm

**This very literal insistence that only a handful of schools will determine success and if you don’t get into those schools, your chances for upper middle class success are pretty much doomed.

YK, I’m really sorry that it’s hard for people to break the cultural habits they grew up with, but I’m also really sorry that it seems that the more acculturated / assimilated crowd really should let their more newly arrived brethren know that it isn’t like that here, there is no need to worship at the altar of ANY school, and just because people in the old country haven’t heard of certain schools doesn’t mean anything at all about what it takes to be successful in the US. **

That has nothing to do with whether Asians are discriminated against in college applications, in the name of diversity. Just because there is a back of the bus doesn’t mean someone who is bumped from the front based on their race should be perfectly happy, even if the bus ultimately ends up at the same place.

Which, incidentally, it doesn’t. Having seen up close and personal the college recruitment process for two top employers in the USA, I can guarantee you that employers prefer some schools over some other schools. Same goes for graduate schools. So yes, going to the right college is important.

are colleges racist?

CONNECT WITH US