<p>Hunt, this is exactly what I brought up … hundred of posts ago when I asked how deep should we need to go in the USNews rankings to place every one of the Asian students who score above 700 on the verbal SAT or 750 on the Math SAT. When “we” did this exercise a few years ago (as part of a similarly futile discussion with Fabrizio’s predecessor on CC) the answer was that we could end as soon as we reached … Cal, which at that time was ranked between 21st and 25th. </p>
<p>And that is why the protesters typically prefer to stick to … percentages! Or claim that it is NOT about standardized scores only. Of course, all the while clinging to the E&C or Golden sketchy “research.”</p>
<p>My perception is that conservatives are for THEIR religious freedom, not necessarily that of others. I found some of the answers at the last CNN Republican Debate regarding Muslims to be off-putting. But perhaps I shouldn’t let a few bad apples (e.g. Gingrich) be the representatives of conservatives in general. In that respect, rebuke accepted.</p>
<p>This question always comes up in the context of AA and I think it was already touched upon in this thread. If a college coach wants a racially diverse team, then yes, he can have it, because it is permissable to use race as a factor in admissions.</p>
<p>I don’t know where the idea of “caps” came from, because there is no evidence of racial “caps” being used in college admissions.</p>
<p>Since I…don’t believe that the SAT is everything, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here, xiggi. Or are you trying to make a point at all? Is this another one of your “it is what it is” posts?</p>
<p>We may not like each other because you find my politics to be repulsive and I find your stereotypes about Asians to be reprehensible, but I would like to know what you’re getting at with your exercise.</p>
<p>Adding also, that using race as a factor in admissions is not a mandate. Private colleges are not required to use it, and some don’t, I understand. But if the college’s goal is to create a racially diverse student body, then it is Constitutional to consider race in order to achieve that goal.</p>
<p>Indianparent, a few posts back you stated that you don’t care about Asian status socially . . . sorry, I know I’m misquoting . . . but I have to disagree with you. On the contrary social acceptance is of utmost importance in American culture for the simple reason that highly trained and well educated Asians will not make it to top management and leadership positions in corporate America unless they are fully socially accepted. For this reason, I think this is a huge issue, and I do hope you’re correct in stating that within one generation our disenfranchisement will disappear. We deserve to have it be gone.</p>
<p>Fabrizio, did I ever tell you I find your politics repulsive? All I have said (I believe) to you is that I do not understand your arguments. I wish I did understand you and your position a lot better. Unfortunately, I tend to look at numbers and I simply cannot reconcile the claims of discrimination to any verifiable data. </p>
<p>Sometimes I wish I could agree with you, as it would be much easier than debating issues you and I cannot do much about.</p>
<p>No, that wasn’t my question. I specifically asked why do so many apply. I looked up what I could find on the ca dept of ed and it said that Asian’s made up approximately 8.5% of the public(I think it was only public) school students while whites made up about 27%. I extrapolated this (yah, I know not a super accurate approach) to the % of hs graduates. Given this data, it seems really skewed when Asians make up 35% of the applicants to UCB and whites only make up 30%. Asians out apply whites at 6/9 UC campuses, yet their acceptance rates are similar. </p>
<p>It seems to me (remember I like Chemistry and am not a fan of statistics so feel free to point out fallacies in my logic) that the % of Asian’s at UCB is artificially increased by the high concentration of Asian applicants. Then I read that the UC’s (who have no race preference) are the shining example of what would happen at the Ivy’s if they also eliminated the race box. But wait…where are all the whites? I am guessing that many with high scores apply to a much more diverse and longer list of campuses which waters down their percentages at the top UC’s.</p>
<p>So what’s my point? The UC’s shouldn’t be used as the Holy Grail of non race based college admissions because it doesn’t have a representative population of applicants.</p>
<p>Fab, DO NOT say “find anywhere on this thread where I said that it should”</p>
<p>“But you DO NOT have to consider racial classification to allow for demonstration of personal qualities or the overcoming of obstacles.”</p>
<p>Really? You had no additional obstacles as an Asian young man in the rural south compared to your white classmates? You didn’t receive any additional teasing, etc?</p>
<p>woeisshe - African Americans and women who are conservatives in this country are treated horribly in the newsmedia as if they should nt be taken seriously. Libertarianism is not that far from conservatism in the politics. It is horrible how many names people like Palin, Bachmann, Steele get called on the airwaves by prominent people with no consequences. That is another racism all by itself.</p>
<p>Sewhappy, I have been tempted many times to not share information with parents, but inevitably I have shared what I know. It’s interesting that there have been numerous occasions when information that would have been helpful to me has not been offered by white parents. Funny how that works. The only conclusion I can draw is that I must be seen as someone who is perhaps conniving, sneaky, even evil. It is a troubling situation that should be long gone by now. Do whites only help other whites? Are Asians expected to only help other Asians? Really? How backward can intelligent people be? I don’t believe that Asians are separating themselves into their own communities. I believe they are being corralled there by whites. It also seems to me that the only way this problem will be resolved is through the loss of majority of the white population. Thankfully that’s taking place as we speak.</p>
<p>Does it surprise you that the acceptance rates are similar? Why wouldn’t they be?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s possible that many high-scoring whites in California aren’t applying to the top UCs for whatever reason (e.g. not “diverse” enough, “too Asian,” etc.) But for those who do apply and get in, a substantial number choose to attend. As I said, from 1994 to 2009, white yield at Berkeley ranged from 31.8% to 41.8%, with the high occurring in 2008. Those figures aren’t as high as those of Harvard, sure, but they’re not low, either.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>True. siserune has a very reasonable explanation for the “erratic but increasing” trend of Asian enrollment at Berkeley: demographic changes. In other words, we would’ve seen increases anyway even if Proposition 209 were never passed. And maybe Asian enrollment would go down at private elites if race were not considered. But you know what? I’m fine with that. What I’m not fine with are reading comments like [“I</a> don’t want another boring Asian”](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/10/asian]"I”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/10/asian).</p>
<p>Since we’re all about straight answers to questions now, sure I had to face teasing due to my ethnicity. Both whites and blacks have mocked my Chinese ancestry.</p>
<p>But I’ve already told you that such teasing is hardly unique to the South. Are you forgetting the Alexandra Wallace Youtube mishap? And to go back to the example I used pages ago, are you suggesting that the [anti-Asian</a> heckling at the Ivy Leagues](<a href=“http://www.webcitation.org/5u6KsjeoE]anti-Asian”>http://www.webcitation.org/5u6KsjeoE) Jeremy Lin experienced throughout his entire collegiate career all came from Southerners?</p>
<p>**Just as an NFL coach won’t select the 47 fastest runners possible, the adcoms will try to build a team, and in this case a class. Their job is to ensure that the very best class is built to satisfy the demands of faculty AND coaches AND music directors, and … name it. For this reason, they do not use a paint-by-the-numbers strategy that confuses meritocracy with a combination of GPA and standardized test scores. Like it or not, elements such as demonstrating personal qualities or overcoming obstacles DO play a role.</p>
<p>Positing that a class based on the highest SAT or GPA represents a better freshman class at a selective university is simply shortsighted.**</p>
<p>What does the above has to do with race? I am totally OK if colleges want a diverse class from the interest perspective. But this discussion is about a diverse class from the race perspective. </p>
<p>So, why no racial quota in athletics? Wouldn’t you want 5% of any athletics team to be Asian, and no more than 13% to be African-American if racial diversity is what you seek?</p>