<p>Oh well, HYPS strive to ensure that all races are provided with the political and economic means to achieve the goals of the Civil Rights movement. Sounds good to me!</p>
<p>For some reason this made me think of this thread: [The</a> World Map of Useless Stereotypes - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://niemann.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/the-world-map-of-useless-stereotypes/]The”>http://niemann.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/the-world-map-of-useless-stereotypes/)</p>
<p>Yes, that was very clever image, Mathmom. I chuckled.</p>
<p>Do Northeasterners think West Coasters are nerds? I hadn’t heard that one.</p>
<p>I think that must be a Silicon Valley reference really (with maybe some Redmond, WA thrown in.)</p>
<p>Just point of information on so-called proportional representation. Currently Princeton, for example, has at least 2% less percentage of Anglo Caucasians in the undergrad student body than is represented in the U.S. at large. And that would even be assuming that all of its International Students are white, which is clearly false, as many Internat’ls are black Africans, others are students of color living in various countries. But I’m excluding white Internat’ls fully.</p>
<p>However, by contrast, the Asian undergrad representation is more than 3 times their U.S. national percentage. </p>
<p>It is not proportional. How more disproportional should it become so that Asians will not call their representation “racist”?</p>
<p>E- this has been discussed on other AA threads.
It is not clear. First of all “quotas” are illegal. Not sure about caps- seem the same to me, but what do I know.</p>
<p>The proportions could mirror the applicant pool. Or the US population (plus some internationals). Or be some sort of vision that the school chooses.
Again it is technically illegal to START OUT with an certain proportion and fill it.</p>
<p>To me AA was considered legal only because it made sure that underprivileged were not underrepresented.
Why underprivileged is assumed by race, per se, I cannot fathom.</p>
<p>The term of OVERrepresented minority IS interesting- it reveals that this minority needs to be capped out at some point.</p>
<p>[The</a> Cartoonist Group - Image View and Uses](<a href=“You are being redirected...”>You are being redirected...)</p>
<p>sums this thread up in a nutshell…</p>
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<p>OK, but then the need for an increase in STEM majors that you cited is not so that we can have more people on Wall Street!</p>
<p>And I find it interesting that you don’t seem to have a problem with Wall Street’s affirmative action policy for Harvard and Yale grads, putting the thumb on the scale so to speak to preferentially hire candidates with a STEM degree from these institutions, over better qualified candidates with a STEM degree from a <em>GULP</em> state school in the South.</p>
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<p>It’s quite simple. The whole proportional or disproportional representation nonsense is just that, nonsense. For an admissions policy to be not racist, it has to eliminate race a criteria altogether. Then the race distribution will be what it will be. If there are more qualified candidates in one particular race, they will dominate, regardless of their share in the overall population.</p>
<p>Just to make it clear one more time, it is not the share in the general population that is of important here. It is the share in the qualified population that is of importance.</p>
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<p>Caps are illegal too. </p>
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<p>I think the first two are illegal. A good lawyer could perhaps be able to wiggle out of them, but it will be hard. The third is what goes on today, except the vision includes race. Eliminate race in the vision and I am happy.</p>
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<p>Ouch! That’s totally illegal.</p>
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<p>Actually, it is because of the leakage to Wall Street that we need more spots for STEM majors in the top schools. If all the STEM majors stayed in STEM, the shortage would be much smaller, if any. </p>
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<p>It is not illegal to discriminate based on college of graduation.</p>
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<p>Funny how you selectively apply the virtuous notion of ‘merit’.</p>
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<p>That’s why Georgia Tech, Minnesota, Illinois, etc., can step up and start graduating more STEM majors, and why Harvard, as a school without a top 10 Engineering program shouldn’t have to.</p>
<p>After all, don’t we want more Engineering majors from the places that train engineers the best, and not Engineering majors from the places that have more overall prestige, even though they aren’t as good in Engineering as their overall prestige would suggest?</p>
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<p>I have worked with a few STEM majors from HYPSM. They are meritorious indeed without a doubt. Many of these kids humbled me, and it has been my privilege to work with them (and, in some cases, be their mentors).</p>
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<p>Ah, but STEM is so much more. P, S, and M have really, really strong TE programs as well (S and M in fact are #s 1 and 2 in engineering), while all of HYPSM have extremely strong SM programs.</p>
<p>Finally, trust me, HYPSM want to feed kids to Wall Street. Who do you think will be the future big donors?</p>
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<p>And I’m sure that the Georgia Tech grad would be equally or more humbling. If GT is considered by many a better program, wouldn’t it be better if you worked with or mentored someone trained at a better program?</p>
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<p>Right, and if Harvard finds that alumni aren’t donating because too many of the you-know-whos (pick your favorite group) are at Harvard, then you’d be OK?? Because the above seems to be saying that Harvard needs to protect its source of big donations.</p>
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<p>If someone wanted to go to Wall Street post graduation they should have surveyed which colleges have the best placement and tried their best to go there. Their parents should have guided them like Asian parents do. It is the same philosophy as getting into a private feeder school to get into HYPSM. I hope they didn’t get bad advice on CC which is so common.</p>
<p>It is different from race, as one cannot change their race. But surely they can change/choose the school that they go to.</p>
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<p>Look, one of my pet peeves is that Asians don’t give money to schools. I have said that many times on this board. If HYPSM is capping Asian admission because of financial worries down the line, I totally get it. Asians have to do something here, it is not the responsibility of HYPSM to do anything. </p>
<p>With the large numbers of second generation Asian kids headed to more lucrative careers, I am hoping that this will change in another 20-30 years.</p>
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<p>LOL. I heard it once from a broadcaster in a MLB game. The idea is to pitch to a hitter so carefully that for all intents and purposes you are walking him, but still leaves the appearance that you are pitching to him. An unintentional intentional walk is more common.</p>
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<p>According to the research of Lauren Rivera that I posted earlier, it is, most of the time, Harvard, Yale, Princeton and maybe Stanford. 
I never claimed otherwise.</p>
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<p>I have the greatest of respect for an institution that would turn down the son of a sitting Prime Minister who is an alumnus, and where the president of one of the colleges is a friend of his mother’s:</p>
<p>[Euan</a> Blair misses out on place at Oxford - Telegraph](<a href=“Euan Blair misses out on place at Oxford”>Euan Blair misses out on place at Oxford)</p>
<p>But have no fear. Power always prevails. The son was later accepted at Yale on scholarship even though he only managed a 2.1 from Bristol:</p>
<p>[It’s</a> not how Euan got his scholarship, but why - Telegraph](<a href=“It's not how Euan got his scholarship, but why”>It's not how Euan got his scholarship, but why)</p>
<p>Isn’t the whole reason why we believe in a meritocracy is that institutions are best served by selecting the best qualified? </p>
<p>Why has there been pages of talk applying the analogy of sports team selection to the college admissions process, and then the business world gets a pass because it’s OK to hire the HYP grad over the State School grad with an degree from an equally good or better program because, well, its HYP?</p>